One DAW as your only environment/instrument(s)?

[machinesworking]

Janky workaround instead of having it built into the DAW.

Point is Live can support surround sound.

You can do all kinds of workarounds, they still aren't great. Earlier I pointed out that although I love DP, I'm using Logic for a two track project I'm mastering from the 80's, because Rosetta Logic (and maybe Pro Tools dunno?) can do Music Rebalance via ARA, which is a far far more elegant choice than using RX standalone, exporting stems into DP and hoping it's all as good as ARA with Logic.

These threads always fall into bickering about which is the best DAW instead of letting people like their DAW of choice etc. I've hopped around enough to know they're all amazing and there's always some part of the program that isn't as good as the others, it's not a mystery, or a situation where anyone is "wrong".

[VOODOO U]

Point is Live can support surround sound.

It doesn't...

It can via M4L which you agreed (even though it's not to your workflow preference).

If you want to choose Live go ahead

I already chose something else.

No need to twist yourself into a pretzel to somehow claim it does stuff it doesn't.

Where did I claim Live does stuff that it doesn't?

[machinesworking]

Anyway, the thread is asking people's choice. I chose Bitwig and it doesn't come close to Logic and it's range of features. If you want to choose Live go ahead. No need to twist yourself into a pretzel to somehow claim it does stuff it doesn't.

This is truth, and as you've pointed out Bitwig does things no other DAW can do, the per note expression and modulation, plugin sandboxing, fantastic clip launching, CLAP and DAWProject support etc. etc.

Besides even if Logic gets used primarily for electronic music, just like Cubase, DP, Reaper, and to a degree Studio One, it's more a "kitchen sink" DAW, with some representation of most every DAW capability. I don't think Live, (or Bitwig, Reason, and FL Studio for that matter), are wanting that amount of bloat, that's really kind of obvious to me anyway.

[Trensharo]

This is when it becomes less fun.

It can't be what 'you' use, but there must be a best and someone is going to declare they know what best!

It was inevitable.

If I were a Hip Hop Producer, I would choose Logic Pro over Cubase any day of the week. The Step Sequencer is worth it, alone. That is not something you can just bolt onto Cubase. I would go with Logic, and I wouldn't ever look back. Sample Alchemy is also really good, since in the OP's scenario we can't bolt on stuff like Waves CR8

Not even Studio One's Pattern Editor really competes with Logic's Step Sequencer. It's the best on the market.

But in terms of offering everything you need out of the box in one package, I still think Ableton Live Suite is the superior package. I think Logic Pro is a bit overrated in that aspect, especially when you juxtapose the quality of some of their synths and plug-ins against what Ableton has on offer; as well as the number and quality of presets offered for them... Some of Logic's synths, you're be lucky to find more than 2 dozen presets for them in the package; and a few have much less than that.

Yeah, I don’t care about if I were this or I were that. I don’t even care what you use.

Sure it’s not as fun to debate, but then you’d have to find debating about random shit on the internet to find it fun in the first place.

Is this even English?

I have no clue what you're yapping about, at this point. It's super unclear, and grammatically nonsensical.

If you don't like these threads, then you don't have to read them.

[Trensharo]

Same with surround sound. Couldn't M4L be used to support surround sound?

Surround Sound is ignorable outside of Film Workflows.

Unless we're talking about Spatial Audio (e.g. ATMOS), where the demand still isn't enough for Live not having it to be that big of an issue. Otherwise, they'd have added it.

The only place REALLY pushing Spatial is Apple, because they have a lot of skin in the game with their hardware. The want to sell as many AirPods as possible! That market is already becoming fragmented in the music production space, anyways. Apple, Dolby, etc. It's going to end up like the Surround developers use for Games (THX, DTX, etc.).

It does have a lot of potential for sound design, though.

Beyond that, Logic supports these things because it is used in the Film/Media Composition space and therefore needs a relevant feature set for that market, anyways. This is why it has always supported at least 5.1 Surround (or more) and it got Spatial Audio fairly early. Pro Tools is the industry standard in that space, and was REALLY early with Spatial Audio for that exact reason (Pro Tools Ultimate). Nuendo got it before Cubase Pro, because it's the Post SKU in Steinberg's lineup.

DAWs that haven't already leaned into Film/Media Work (or Postproduction) tend to not prioritize stuff like Surround and ATMOS, since it has a lot less relevance to music production than many people tend to insinuate it does.

Same with the Video Support and a few other things.

Ableton is designed for Music Production and Live Production... pretty much exclusively... so the pressure to implement those features is low. People on Logic for Film Work and Composition aren't going to go to Live simply because they add that, and they won't morph their DAW into Ableton Live X+ as that would make no sense (and their core audience has little need for much of that).

DAWs are generally going to meet in the middle, anyways, but most of them start at different ends depending on what their core focus is... Whether it be Audio Recording and Mixing, Audio Editing and Mastering, General MIDI Sequencing and Composition, Beatmaking and Live Performance, Film and Media Workflows, etc. Hell, even Notation Software is starting to move towards the means, these days.

^- We also have seen this in other creative market segments, like video editors. Avid had a monopoly on collaborative workflows for video production, but other developers have already been hard at work towards closing gaps there (at their own paces).

The only relevant factor is the pace at which the DAW you choose is moving. If it's too slow, it may not be worth investing to wait two decades for them to get there.

[Trensharo]

If you want to choose Live go ahead

I already chose something else.

Weird how you can tell that people are simply here to defend their choice. They assume that you disagreeing with their opinion or choice means you chose the thing you're talking about and are being as defensive about a choice as they are.

It cannot simply be that you have used different solution enough to have formulated an opinion or stance on them.

Also, many people don't seem to realize that you can extend Ableton Live using Max 4 Live, so a lot of these things function much like native functions in the DAW. It's like Extending REAPER. Max 4 Live is effectively an extensibility platform for Ableton Live. It goes beyond building Effects and Instruments... It allows application extensibility as well.

If someone just wants to build and run Effects, MIDI Processors, Instruments or Samplers in any DAW, they don't need Ableton or Max. They can get REAKTOR 6 and do that without locking themselves to a specific DAW.

And I'm pretty sure you were referring to the Surround Panner from Ableton, which is a 1st party device and worked as expected for Surround Mixing.

Ableton is set for basic surround (up to 7.1, IIRC), but it does require Live Suite and there still is no Spatial Audio support (e.g. ATMOS).

[elxsound]

Is this even English?

I have no clue what you're yapping about, at this point. It's super unclear, and grammatically nonsensical.

If you don't like these threads, then you don't have to read them.

You mean the way, you read it? Where does it say what’s best?

Here’s one for you… If you don’t like my comments, feel free to block me too. Can’t promise you I won’t quote you because I can’t promise you if I’ll remember you.

[Ancientbehemoth]

Can you please get a hotel room

Don't forget the strawberry lube

[elxsound]

Can you please get a hotel room

Don't forget the strawberry lube

You paying?

If you are, you might as well join in.

[Ancientbehemoth]

Can you please get a hotel room

Don't forget the strawberry lube

You paying?

If you are, you might as well join in.

Don't tease I'm already bricked up

[chk071]

Can you please get a hotel room

Impossible. He has them blocked, you know.

[elxsound]

Can you please get a hotel room

Don't forget the strawberry lube

You paying?

If you are, you might as well join in.

Don't tease I'm already bricked up

[VOODOO U]

many people don't seem to realize that you can extend Ableton Live using Max 4 Live, so a lot of these things function much like native functions in the DAW. It's like Extending REAPER. Max 4 Live is effectively an extensibility platform for Ableton Live. It goes beyond building Effects and Instruments... It allows application extensibility as well.

That's pretty much it there.

Ableton is set for basic surround (up to 7.1, IIRC), but it does require Live Suite and there still is no Spatial Audio support (e.g. ATMOS).

Well it does have Spatial Audio support but it requires a plugin.

[VOODOO U]

Live and ATMOS
https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s ... uage=en_US

[pdxindy]

It can via M4L which you agreed

That is not what I said. Live does not support surround sound. Surround sound is not built into the core application. You can do some janky workaround using M4L.