Would you write plugins for a free, Linux virtual studio?

[dwerner]

Hi, for about two years I have been working on DarkWave Studio, a GPL modular virtual studio that currently works quite well on Windows (well on my PC anyway ) and is in the process of being ported to GNU/Linux.

What I'm wondering is this: would developers be interested in making PlugIns for DarkWave on Linux? If not, I won't bother porting it, it's a great deal of work and is delaying the first release. But if I am going to port it to Linux, it's best I do it now so there are no backwards compatibility issues that gutting the program to make it portable would cause.

There is a bonus to the whole Linux port, I'm writing a cross platform toolkit that is basically a 3D engine on steroids (uses photoshop-like layer effects and lots of alpha blending to make dynamically sizable controls that look like they were drawn by an artist).

My sites info about the program doesn't mention my latest work or ideas but you can get the idea by seeing the screenshot and imagining that the whole program looks as flashy as the cool reverb plugin you can see in the shot.

Please let me know what you all think. The link to my program's site is below:

http://www.experimentalscene.com/?type=1&id=0

[kuniklo]

On the one hand a Linux DAW would be fantastic. On the other hand I already spend so much time writing code for other purposes that I'm happy to fork out some $$ for software that just works, even if it's proprietary.

I'd certainly use a Linux DAW if it were as capable as, say, Live 4.

[dwerner]

On the one hand a Linux DAW would be fantastic. On the other hand I already spend so much time writing code for other purposes that I'm happy to fork out some $$ for software that just works, even if it's proprietary.

I'd certainly use a Linux DAW if it were as capable as, say, Live 4.

That's interesting kuniklo, I keep getting told to make it like Live, I'll have to check it out properly. I've mostly used the low end programs like Buzz and Fruity Loops as I have a non-music background until the last few years. My inspiration originally was to make a proper Buzz, without all the crashes and ugly interface (i still think it's excellent though). The main technical difference of DarkWave is that the plugins have GUIs, like VST (it also supports VST) and multiple ports per machine which can either transmit audio or control signals (not CV, it's midi-like).

[kuniklo]

I'm not very familiar with Buzz, but I'm not suggesting that your host should necessarily be *like* Live, just roughly as capable. Something that supported multitrack audio + midi and software instruments with reasonably flexible routing and an efficient UI basically. Tracktion is another good example of a capable and very easy to use DAW. The kind of people that run Cubase probably aren't going to be interested in dicking around with Linux.

A few things I've observed in the last few years wrt Linux:

1. Most people don't really care much about software "freedom" in the Stallman sense of the term and won't use Linux for that reason.

2. Most people *do* care about price and will use Linux if it does what they want and saves them a lot of money vs. Windows/Mac.

3. Most people will also pay a fair amount to avoid having to hassle with tedious details like drivers, low-level config etc. This amount varies among users, but generally falls below the price point of Windows + Tracktion, for example. In other words, most people *will* pay $300 - $400 to get an easy to use system that supports all the third party stuff they want to run.

For these reasons I think Linux will be a niche player in the sound market for the near future, although I'd love to be wrong about this.

[dwerner]

I'm not very familiar with Buzz, but I'm not suggesting that your host should necessarily be *like* Live, just roughly as capable. Something that supported multitrack audio + midi and software instruments with reasonably flexible routing and an efficient UI basically. Tracktion is another good example of a capable and very easy to use DAW. The kind of people that run Cubase probably aren't going to be interested in dicking around with Linux.

That sounds just like what I'm doing. I've already started the multitrack recorder, the routing is incredibly flexible and I believe it will be easy to use too.

A few things I've observed in the last few years wrt Linux:

1. Most people don't really care much about software "freedom" in the Stallman sense of the term and won't use Linux for that reason.

2. Most people *do* care about price and will use Linux if it does what they want and saves them a lot of money vs. Windows/Mac.

3. Most people will also pay a fair amount to avoid having to hassle with tedious details like drivers, low-level config etc. This amount varies among users, but generally falls below the price point of Windows + Tracktion, for example. In other words, most people *will* pay $300 - $400 to get an easy to use system that supports all the third party stuff they want to run.

For these reasons I think Linux will be a niche player in the sound market for the near future, although I'd love to be wrong about this.

I hope you are wrong, but I think you're right. Hopefully I can change that situation some day. Talking about it makes me want to support Linux more and more. I think I will do it.

[kuniklo]

I hope you are wrong, but I think you're right. Hopefully I can change that situation some day. Talking about it makes me want to support Linux more and more. I think I will do it.

The funny thing about Linux is that the more people put into it the more they get back out of it. It's people like you that keep making it better and better. Keep up the good work and good luck!

[mdsp]

Just a technical note about VST plugins and linux.

Paul Davis has written something called fst that can load native VSTs compiled for windows(x86) even those with GUI.
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/vst-plugins/

There's a list of the ones that he could make to work and among them you can find Kontakt, Battery...

Knowing that, and that my spare time is limited, it's hard for me to find a good reason to port my own plugins to Linux using LADSPA's API.
the same apply for AudioUnits.

[dwerner]

Just a technical note about VST plugins and linux.

Paul Davis has written something called fst that can load native VSTs compiled for windows(x86) even those with GUI.
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/vst-plugins/

There's a list of the ones that he could make to work and among them you can find Kontakt, Battery...

Knowing that, and that my spare time is limited, it's hard for me to find a good reason to port my own plugins to Linux using LADSPA's API.
the same apply for AudioUnits.

I've even managed to run the Windows version of DarkWave on Linux using WINE, and as I recall it loaded a VST or two, and had working audio output and midi input. Thanks for the link, I will take a good look at that site.

[arakula]

You should add a "I would not use it" answer to the list if you want a really representative result...

[dwerner]

You should add a "I would not use it" answer to the list if you want a really representative result...

Funny thing is I did, it didn't work for some reason. I'm fairly new to kvr so I may have done something wrong. Can I edit the poll somehow to try fix it?

[arakula]

Can I edit the poll somehow to try fix it?

Hmm, no idea... you might try to edit the original article, maybe this lets you modify the poll, but I wouöldn't count on it.

[dwerner]

Can I edit the poll somehow to try fix it?

Hmm, no idea... you might try to edit the original article, maybe this lets you modify the poll, but I wouöldn't count on it.

Hmmm.. can't seem to do it. Oh well, so far 4 people say they would write plugs for it, that's not bad, it could have been zero

[dee ess pee]

Question, how to connect module/machine in darkwave?

[stefancrs]

This poll is totally skew in regard to the topic.

I'll answer the topic, but not the poll.
"Would you write plugins for a free, Linux virtual studio?"
Not specifically, so to speak. Why not just use vst plugins?

[dwerner]

This poll is totally skew in regard to the topic.

is it really?

I'll answer the topic, but not the poll.
"Would you write plugins for a free, Linux virtual studio?"
Not specifically, so to speak. Why not just use vst plugins?

1. I don't like VST a whole lot. I wanted to write an interface the way I like it. Since the interface isn't rock solid I won't delve into it's features right now, but so far it's not too different from VST, just more intuitive (well I think so anyway).

2. I want to supply an advanced cross platform GUI toolkit, capable of generating nice UI graphics without relying too much on the use of static / animated images. This could afford quality graphics without a large download size, which is good for free software developers that can't afford high bandwidth hosting.

3. Buzz is a good example of lots of support for a free virtual studio (in this case of the tracker variety) by developers. If you look at http://www.buzzmachines.com you will see a community of developers have created free machines for Buzz.

If commercial developers are too busy to write plugins for my program, I will not be surprised at all. The purpose of the poll and the topic were just to gauge interest of porting my virtual studio to the Linux platform, both for end users and developers that may wish to use Linux instead of Windows (as I usually do these days).