Oh Melody where have you gone...?

[griels]

people who I like to call 'Pre-Bayesian mutual exclusivists'

I can see why you like it, just rolls off the tongue, that!

Yeah, load of cobblers but catchy eh?

[dystonia_ek]

Appeal to Novelty
Appeal to Novelty is a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is new. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
1. X is new.
2. Therefore X is correct or better.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because the novelty or newness of something does not automatically make it correct or better than something older. This is made quite obvious by the following example: Joe has proposed that 1+1 should now be equal to 3. When asked why people should accept this, he says that he just came up with the idea. Since it is newer than the idea that 1+1=2, it must be better.

This sort of "reasoning" is appealing for many reasons. First, "western culture" includes a very powerful commitment to the notion that new things must be better than old things. Second, the notion of progress (which seems to have come, in part, from the notion of evolution) implies that newer things will be superior to older things. Third, media advertising often sends the message that newer must be better. Because of these three factors (and others) people often accept that a new thing (idea, product, concept, etc.) must be better because it is new. Hence, Novelty is a somewhat common fallacy, especially in advertising.

It should not be assumed that old things must be better than new things (see the fallacy Appeal to Tradition) anymore than it should be assumed that new things are better than old things. The age of thing does not, in general, have any bearing on its quality or correctness (in this context).

Obviously, age does have a bearing in some contexts. For example, if a person concluded that his day old milk was better than his two-month old milk, he would not be committing an Appeal to Novelty. This is because, in such cases the newness of the thing is relevant to its quality. Thus, the fallacy is committed only when the newness is not, in and of itself, relevant to the claim.




VS.



Appeal to Tradition

Appeal to Tradition is a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is older, traditional, or "always has been done." This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
1. X is old or traditional
2. Therefore X is correct or better.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because the age of something does not automatically make it correct or better than something newer. This is made quite obvious by the following example: The theory that witches and demons cause disease is far older than the theory that microorganisms cause diseases. Therefore, the theory about witches and demons must be true.

This sort of "reasoning" is appealing for a variety of reasons. First, people often prefer to stick with what is older or traditional. This is a fairly common psychological characteristic of people which may stem from the fact that people feel more comfortable about what has been around longer. Second, sticking with things that are older or traditional is often easier than testing new things. Hence, people often prefer older and traditional things out of laziness. Hence, Appeal to Tradition is a somewhat common fallacy.


It should not be assumed that new things must be better than old things, any more than it should be assumed that old things are better than new things. The age of something does not, in general, have any bearing on its quality or correctness (in this context).

Obviously, age does have a bearing in some contexts. For example, if a person concluded that aged wine would be better than brand new wine, he would not be committing an Appeal to Tradition. This is because, in such cases the age of the thing is relevant to its quality. Thus, the fallacy is committed only when the age is not, in and of itself, relevant to the claim.

One final issue that must be considered is the "test of time." In some cases people might be assuming that because something has lasted as a tradition or has been around a long time that it is true because it has "passed the test of time." If a person assumes that something must be correct or true simply because it has persisted a long time, then he has committed an Appeal to Tradition. After all, as history has shown people can persist in accepting false claims for centuries.

This should be a sticky in this forum.

[snooky]

you peeps are so sensetive...ah well, go and have a good cry.

I'd rather not. I prefer to laugh at narrow-minded elitists.

what do I have to do to convince you that I only meant half of what I said...I have stated that two times allready...And when did I EVER say anything remotely elitist...sheesh, I have my opinons and you have yours...I don't badmouth anyone or anything, I just feel a certain way and if you can't accept that, then you my friend, are the narrow-minded one...It doesn't have to be you who are right in this matter you know.

enough said no?

[griels]

what do I have to do to convince you that I only meant half of what I said...I have stated that two times allready...And when did I EVER say anything remotely elitist...sheesh, I have my opinons and you have yours...I don't badmouth anyone or anything, I just feel a certain way and if you can't accept that, then you my friend, are the narrow-minded one...It doesn't have to be you who are right in this matter you know.

enough said no?

Aye... But now who's sensitive?

[shamann]

what do I have to do to convince you that I only meant half of what I said...I have stated that two times allready...And when did I EVER say anything remotely elitist

Well, I think you've been undone slightly by the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome.

And I think the bit about, "I believe that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it," smacks a tad of elitism, no? What with only the select few able to understand by birthright?

[snooky]

what do I have to do to convince you that I only meant half of what I said...I have stated that two times allready...And when did I EVER say anything remotely elitist

Well, I think you've been undone slightly by the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome.

And I think the bit about, "I believe that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it," smacks a tad of elitism, no? What with only the select few able to understand by birthright?

well, that I belive is half true...I mean, if you're born super smart or fuggly or whatever, it's nothing elitst by that, just the way it is...some can't stand electronica and get a headache whenever they hear it..I don't, I love it!

[soulata]

well, that I belive is half true...I mean, if you're born super smart or fuggly or whatever, it's nothing elitst by that, just the way it is...some can't stand electronica and get a headache whenever they hear it..I don't, I love it!

Alright, but do you really think you love it by nature (as it's your destiny to like it).

IMO, that's more due to what you do, how were you raised and where and with whom you live and cooperate (as friends, family).

IMO only.

k

[tony Smyth]

I notice Tranels disappeared. He must be wondering how we got from his original thread to the last few pages.

[Sicklecell666]

And I think the bit about, "I believe that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it," smacks a tad of elitism, no? What with only the select few able to understand by birthright?

well, that I belive is half true...

You're just full of half-truths, aren't you?

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

After having plowed through all this, and without the calming assistance of a beer or two, all I can say is..

It used to be a pretty girl was like a melody. What happened to pretty girls?

[Hink]

And I think the bit about, "I believe that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it," smacks a tad of elitism, no? What with only the select few able to understand by birthright?

well, that I belive is half true...

You're just full of half-truths, aren't you?

1/2 truths?...his name is fractalism...maybe it's his belief too...

Sorry fractalism, not trying to have a go at you but the timing was just too good...

[1-2-Many]

I notice Tranels disappeared. He must be wondering how we got from his original thread to the last few pages.

Ya, I thought that too..

In an attempt to bring things back to topic, I must say that of all the musical elements, melody is the most successful at inducing mnemes(sticking points) in the brain - hence imparting a memorability to the song. You know, that song you find your brain regurgitating over and over, and despite all effort you just can't silence it's most salient melodic phrase incessantly humming over and over in your head!

So, if you want your tune to stick around in someone's head....or at least have some element of memorabilty, best include some form of melody.

[snooky]

And I think the bit about, "I believe that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it," smacks a tad of elitism, no? What with only the select few able to understand by birthright?

well, that I belive is half true...

You're just full of half-truths, aren't you?

1/2 truths?...his name is fractalism...maybe it's his belief too...

Sorry fractalism, not trying to have a go at you but the timing was just too good...

well, I used to be "mindless" if that helps...I really don't know what I'm on about most of the time...exept when I'm 100% correct about something, and I'm never wrong...that's what I belive.

[Sicklecell666]

well, I used to be "mindless" if that helps...

HAH! Indeed it does explain much..

So...How ya been, dipshit?

[snooky]

well, I used to be "mindless" if that helps...

HAH! Indeed it does explain much..

So...How ya been, dipshit?

well, ok...

You really didn't knew?

thought it was obvius really...