I'm not sure what the best solution is for rendering down a midi track into audio files that I intend to edit, EQ, compress, or whatever, before the final render to 16 bit for CD.
Is there a real benefit to working with a 32 bit audio file?
24 or 32 bit render? Pro and con?
-
- KVRAF
- 6939 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
I'd say go for 32bit "float". This format allows you to go over 0dB without clipping, so thats one worry less.
Also if you save as 24bit it still takes 4 bytes each sample (32bits again) so there is not even a difference in file size.
Also if you save as 24bit it still takes 4 bytes each sample (32bits again) so there is not even a difference in file size.
-
- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
Your sequencer will almost certainly be using 32 bits internally. If you export from your sequencer at 24 bits, you're adding either quantization or dithering noise. Then you do your processing in an editor, and dither again to go down to 16 bits.
A 32 bit export removes the intermediate noise addition, and the only downside should be extra disk space. If your sequencer, editor, and hard drive are up to the task of 32 bit, I don't see any compelling reason to convert to 24 bit instead.
Whether the difference is really significant or not, well, that's another question altogether.
A 32 bit export removes the intermediate noise addition, and the only downside should be extra disk space. If your sequencer, editor, and hard drive are up to the task of 32 bit, I don't see any compelling reason to convert to 24 bit instead.
Whether the difference is really significant or not, well, that's another question altogether.
-
- KVRAF
- 6939 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Interesting... I did the same once in CoolEdit (you can pick like 6 formats) and everything except 16bits were all the same size. The same I recall happened in Trackion. What software did you use?Warmonger wrote:I just made a set of 16- (int), 24- (int), and 32- (float) bit wave files.
16 bit filesize: 1.68 MB
24 bit filesize: 2.52 MB
32 bit filesize: 3.36 MB
-
- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
Sound Forge 7.
From what I remember of the wave file format, it should be possible to store a 24-bit value in 4 bytes by setting your headers appropriately. But if you want to be space efficient, you can certainly store it directly as 3 bytes.
I wrote a simple program once that created 24-bit waves, and I used the latter methods. The generated wave files were perfectly playable in Winamp or whatever. I didn't try the other method though.
From what I remember of the wave file format, it should be possible to store a 24-bit value in 4 bytes by setting your headers appropriately. But if you want to be space efficient, you can certainly store it directly as 3 bytes.
I wrote a simple program once that created 24-bit waves, and I used the latter methods. The generated wave files were perfectly playable in Winamp or whatever. I didn't try the other method though.
-
- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
Curiouser and curiouser...
I just imported the 32-bit file into Tracktion 1.6.0.1, exported at each of the 3 different bit depths, and they gave me the exact same file sizes I got from Sound Forge.
I just imported the 32-bit file into Tracktion 1.6.0.1, exported at each of the 3 different bit depths, and they gave me the exact same file sizes I got from Sound Forge.
-
- KVRAF
- 6939 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
Ah, so it IS possible to do it both ways! I thought 24bits would use only 3 bytes each sample, until I did that test in CoolEdit. It doesn't make sense to me to waiste one in each 4 bytes...Warmonger wrote:From what I remember of the wave file format, it should be possible to store a 24-bit value in 4 bytes by setting your headers appropriately. But if you want to be space efficient, you can certainly store it directly as 3 bytes.
Anyway, I learned something new today: it depends on the host weather 24bits files are smaller than 32bits files.
-
- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
The reason it does make sense (in some manner of speaking) is that 24 bit integers are still stored internally in a 32 bit int. A wave file would be an array of these 32 bit values. It is easy to write out an array of 32 bit values directly to disk, but it is slightly more difficult (and time consuming) to write only the 3 useful bytes to disk, and skip the fourth.
Then again, if I could figure it out in a few hours (including time to learn the wave format), I should think Syntrillium would be up to the task as well.
It must have been a conscious design decision then, but I'd say it was the wrong one.
Then again, if I could figure it out in a few hours (including time to learn the wave format), I should think Syntrillium would be up to the task as well.
It must have been a conscious design decision then, but I'd say it was the wrong one.-
- KVRAF
- 6939 posts since 4 Jun, 2004 from Utrecht, Holland
I believe immediately you got these results in Tracktion. Maybe I assumed it because CoolEdit did it the uneconomical way, and files saved by Tracktion had the same properties.Warmonger wrote:I just imported the 32-bit file into Tracktion 1.6.0.1, exported at each of the 3 different bit depths, and they gave me the exact same file sizes I got from Sound Forge.
But what happens if you record with different bit depths instead of "save as" ??
-
- KVRAF
- 1884 posts since 9 Feb, 2004 from Rochester, MN
Same results for recording audio as for exporting.
(By the way, I've never really done much audio recording, and this little test just reminded me of why $199 for T2 is a steal!)
(By the way, I've never really done much audio recording, and this little test just reminded me of why $199 for T2 is a steal!)
