Chords

[dudley]

but i thought we said A#7 was a minor 7th, because it used the F instead of the F# ???

[contrast]

Yes, the chord posted previously (A# D F G#) is a A#7 (major chord, not minor). However, that chord does not appear in the Bmajor scale (which was also part of your original inquiry).

Amaj7 is something else, specifically A# D F A.

You should really look for a book or website explaining how to construct chords, as this will make a lot more sense with a more structed explanation of the topic. I don't have a URL offhand but you should be able to find something with google pretty easily.

[dudley]

its the Bminor scale im using....

[contrast]

In that case there is no A# in the Bminor scale at all.

Bmajor: B C# D# E F# G# A#
Bminor: B C# D E F# G A

[dudley]

so...its a major chord, but it appears in the Bminor scale .....have i got that right?

[contrast]

No, there is an A major chord in the Bminor scale, but there is no A# at all, and thus no A# chord.

[dudley]

ahhh, but there are 3 types of minor scale
descending, ascending &harmonic !!!!
just 2 confuse things!!

[Manc Chris]

For God's sake man ....try something. If it sounds good, USE IT

No-one gives a shit whether it's orthadox, or not

[dudley]

easy mate.........There is a guy trying to learn something here..........

Might be shit to you but thoery is good...Is`nt it

[Manc Chris]

easy mate.........There is a guy trying to learn something here..........

Might be shit to you but thoery is good...Is`nt it

What?

After all the science on this thread I have a vision of a poor dude sat with his fingers stuck on his keyboard, scared to death about what to do next in case anyone got offended. I was like ...."GO FOR IT".


**BTW, I Really HOPE that everyone realises this is a certain other KvR dude, trying to brighten up a boring night **

[Sascha Franck]

It all depends on WHICH Bmin scale we're talking about.

The most usual B min scales:

() Natural Minor (also know as aeolian, 6th degree of a major scale, in this case D).
B C# D E F# G A
The A chord in this scale would be an A7 (A C# E G).

() Harmonic Minor (used pretty often in classical music).
B C# D E F# G A#
In this case the chord on the A would obviously be an A#.
A# C# E G - a diminished 7th chord. Most often used as a substitute for the Dom7/b9 chord of the tonality, in this case F#7/b9 (without root).

() Melodic Minor (sometimes also referred to as "jazz minor").
B C# D E F# G# A#
In this case, the chord on the A would again be an A#.
A# C# E G# - A#7.

() Dorian Minor. Pretty much a typical fusion/jazz scale, also very common for several rock/soul/pop styles. Second degree of an A major scale.
B C# D E F# G# A.
The resulting A chord would be:
A C# E G# - Amaj7.

There's a bunch of further minor scales which *could* be possible, but in case you're using the Bmin as some sort of tonic chord, these four are the ones being most likely it. Preferably natural (aeolian) or dorian minor.

Hope that helps.

[Katanaman]

You're all wrong. The one he wants to know about is:

Z X# L M

All the classical composers used this kind of fictional note chords in a fictional past. Try it out. You'll be surprised. If you can't get this sound out of any of your plugins, get synthedit and try to make one. While you're at it, try to make it do other obscure notes like O, K, XXX or, if you're into Wrestling, you can also try HHH.

[Hellbilly]

My head just exploded

[Manc Chris]

You're all wrong. The one he wants to know about is:

Z X# L M

All the classical composers used this kind of fictional note chords in a fictional past. Try it out. You'll be surprised. If you can't get this sound out of any of your plugins, get synthedit and try to make one. While you're at it, try to make it do other obscure notes like O, K, XXX or, if you're into Wrestling, you can also try HHH.

Or, you can try, Square, Triangle, up, L2,R3. In Musicmaker 2000, this is a d11,sus9. Or in WWF, its a boston crab

[Peel]

Okay, I'm sure I've seen an incredibly simple & well-written piece like this somewhere on the 'Net a long time ago, but I can't seem to find it (maybe it's dropped into the abyss). So since my brain needs a rest from my current hardware problems, here's a quick:

CHORD CONSTRUCTION PRIMER (v0.1)

First of all, this will teach you how to tell what notes comprise a given chord symbol (EG: A#7). Going the other way -- looking at a collection of notes & deciding what to name it, is another ball of wax, and can be either quite straightforward or... not

CHORDS & SCALES (basic background info)
Obviously, key, scale, and chords are interrelated in many ways. However, this primer is only concerned with those aspects of scale related to building chords.
* The key you're in has no bearing on how a given chord is constructed -- that is to say, an A#7, for example, will consist of A#, D, F & G#, regardless of what key you're "in."
Nevertheless, you should have a very basic understanding of the 12-tone scale, and how basic scales are constructed. A quick refresher, which you can skip if it's old news to you -- this simplifies things a bit, but if you need to read it, then you're probably not missing out on anything you need to worry about right now:
The normal scale in Western music consists of 12 equally-spaced notes, each a "semitone" or "half-step" apart. A semitone is one fret on a guitar or one key (white OR black) on a piano. They are:
C C# D Db E F F# G G# A A# B (C....)
As you probably know, a sharp (#) note is a semitone higher than a natural note, and a flat (b) note is a semitone lower. So C# can also be written as Db -- there can be reasons for writing it one way or the other, but it's the same thing.
The important thing to notice is that the natural notes (letters) are not evenly spaced -- there's no E#/Fb or B#/Cb in the above list (again, you may encounter, for example, an E#, but this is just a different way of naming an F).
Scales are selected from this master list of 12 notes.

Major scales are:
1 (W) 2 (W) 3 (H) 4 (W) 5 (W) 6 (W) 7 (H) (1)
where (H) is an interval of a half-step (semitone) and (W) is an interval of a whole step (two semitones or a tone). For example, C major is:
C D E F G A B (C)
and E major is:
E F# G# A B C# D# (E)

Minor scales are:
1 (W) 2 (H) 3 (W) 4 (W) 5 (H) 6 (W) 7 (W) (1)
so A minor is:
A B C D E F G (A)
and E minor is:
E F# G A B C D (E)

try it out & figure out some major & minor scales of your own.
These two scales cover the vast, vast majority of rock/pop music. In classical music, you will quickly encounter the harmonic & melodic variations of the minor scale (this is the "natural" minor), but I think we can ignore these for the purposes of this primer (I'm not sure we even needed the minor scale, but I'm winging it here).

Got that? Okay, on to chord construction.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION I: The basics
* Chords are built by stacking thirds
What's a third? Pick any note in the major (or minor) scale that you want to build a chord on. That'll be your "first" note, but for building chords it's properly called the "root." The next-highest note is the "second." And the next-highest after that is, of course, the third. (these terms - second, third, etc -- can refer to both the notes in the chord, or the intervals between them).
How do we make a chord? By stacking thirds! Let's use the key of C major & use C as the root of our chord. C-E is the first third. Stack another on top, and we get C-E-G. If we want we can stack another: C-E-G-B, and so on. In other words, stacking thirds just means taking every-other note from a major or minor scale. But we're getting ahead of ourselves.
You'll notice that because the notes in a scale aren't evenly-spaced, the thirds are not always the same size! For example, in C-major, a third starting from C is E, which is four semitones. But a third starting from E is G, which is only three semitones. These are the two flavours of thirds.
* A major third (M3) is an interval of four semitones. A minor third (m3) is an interbal of three semitones.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION II: TRIADS (EG: C, Cm, Caug, Cdim)
As the name suggests, triads are three-note chords and they're simple to build.
Choose a root. Stack a major or minor third onto it, and then do it again. For example:
C (M3) E (m3) G
This happens to be a C Major chord.
Here are the formulae for building triads:
* Major = M3 + m3 (EG: C = C-E-G)
* Minor = m3 + M3 (EG: Cm = C-Eb-G)
Again, if you only care about rock/pop, those might be the only two triads you need. But there are two more:
* Augmented = M3 + M3 (EG: Caug = C-E-G#)
* Diminished = m3 + m3 (EG: Cdim = C-Eb-Gb)
That's all four. Notice the symbols. A major chord is designated simply by its root note -- and you should not add any designator like "Maj" or "M" because it will only confuse things when we start adding 7ths, as you'll see in the next section. A minor chord by the root + "m", an augmented by root + "aug" or "a" and diminished by root + "dim". Augmented chords can also be denoted by the plus sign (EG: C+) but I don't recommend this -- see later in this primer for why. And some people also don't use "dim" for a diminished triad, but use "m-5" or "mb5" instead. That'll probably be explained later too, but don't worry about it.
Although the intervals between notes are both thirds, we give each note its own name. Take a C major chord, and recall the major scale. The C is the root (first note in the scale), the E is the third, and the G is the fifth. Note that it's the chord's third -- and only the third -- that determines whether a chord is major or minor. Every chord, no matter how complex, whose third is a major third, is a major chord, and every chord whose third is a minor third is a minor chord.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION III: 7th CHORDS (EG: C7, Cm7, and more...)
And after the fifth, of course we get the seventh. As you probably guessed, a 7th chord is simply a triad with yet another third stacked on top. But here we also meet our first quirk in chord-naming nomenclature. Therefore, I'll explain this one a little differently -- put the idea of stacked thirds aside for now, and consider the seventh as a note in a scale.
Again, choose a root (we'll make it C) and recall the major scale. Given that the root is note #1, the seventh is B. Because we're in the major scale, this is known as a major 7th. Now consider the C minor scale -- its seventh is Bb, which is of course called a minor 7th. It will make more sense to do the major 7th first, even though it's less common in rock/pop:
* a major 7th chord is denoted by "Maj7" or "M7" and is built by adding the 7th of the root's MAJOR SCALE to a triad.
So, CMaj7 is C-E-G-B.
CmMaj7 is C-Eb-G-B.
again, notice that the "Maj" refers ONLY to the SEVENTH, not to the type of triad -- that's why CmMaj7 (C minor major 7th) isn't a contradiction, even if it may sound like one at first.
Again, think of the seventh as a note in the scale. To complete our set of Major 7ths, we have the intimidating:
CdimMaj7 = C-Eb-Gb-B
CaugMaj7 = C-E-G#-B
These last two are often written differently, (for example, as CmMaj7-5 and CMaj7-5), but again, don't worry about that for now -- it'll (probably) be explained soonish, although you might never need these chords anyway.
What about the other kind of sevenths, minor sevenths, which are much more common in popular music? They are added to triads in the same way. But here the nomenclature for the chord changes. We don't call this a "minor seventh" chord; instead we call it a "dominant seventh."
(why? It might not be important to know, but if you're interested, it so happens that the 5th note in a scale is also known as the "dominant." And if you build a stack of triads on the dominant note, you get a chord with a minor seventh -- for example, in C major, the dominant is G, and stacking thirds gives us G-B-D-F -- F being the minor 7th in the G Major scale)
Dominant seventh chords can be denoted by "dom7," "dom," or by a triangle symbol. However, because they are by far the more common type of 7th chord, they are most frequently denoted simply by "7". This can be a source of much confusion for the beginner, so just remember -- if you only see "7," it's a *minor* 7th.
* a dominant 7th chord is designated by "7" and is built by adding the 7th of the root's MINOR SCALE to a triad.
so,
C7 = C-E-G-Bb
Cm7 = C-Eb-G-Bb
These two are fairly common in popular music (and of course the dominant 7th is a staple in blues). We also have:
Caug7 = C-E-G#-Bb
and...
for diminished 7th chords, I'm afraid, you're going to have to forget everthing I just told you & return to the idea of stacking thirds (in this case, all minors).
Cdim7 = C-Eb-Gb-Bbb
That last note is "B double-flat" and is more simply written as "A". By the way, this chord is also called "fully diminished" and the "dim" can also be written as a small superscript circle. This chord is quite common in jazz.
Got all that? Good; that's likely the hardest hurdle.
* Just remember; 7 = minor 7th; Maj7 = Major 7th.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION III: 9th, 11th, & 13th chords
Fortunately, these chords, though increasingly complex harmonically, are straightforward compared to the 7ths. These chords are also known as "extended" chords, and the 9th/11th/13th notes themselves are "extensions."
Bearing in mind that the 7ths are an exception, we're back to stacking thirds. But where do the 9ths, 11ths & 13ths come from? Aren't there only 7 notes in a scale? Yes, but we wrap around into the next octave:
C7 = C E G Bb
C9 = C E G Bb D
Cm9 = C Eb G Bb D
CMaj9 = C E G B D
and so on. Again, note that 7ths are minor unless otherwise noted, and that "Maj" refers ONLY to the 7th.
There are a few minor details here once we go past the 9ths. First of all, traditionally, a 9th or 11th or 13th chord is assumed to include all the notes underneath it. So C11 is C-E-G-Bb-D-F. But in most contemporary music, notes above the 7th aren't necessarily included, so a C11 is probably C-E-G-Bb-F. You need the 7th, though (see later for "add" chords).
Yet even in classical theory a 13th chord often (usually?) doesn't include the 11th, because it's considered too dissonant.
A few more examples:
Am11 = A C E G (B) D
GmMaj13 = G Bb D F# (A) (C) E
Faug9 = F A C# Eb G
Simple, no?
why are there no 8th, 10th, 12th, etc. chords? Because those would just duplicate notes already present in the chord.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION IV: other root+number chords (except 5s...)
You can use the same system for other chords, with numbers less than 7. These are also *usually* assumed to include the triad's notes under the given number:
C2 = C D
C4 = C E F
C6 = C E G A
remember to we always use the major scale starting on the root, even if the triad is minor:
Cm6 = C Eb G A (not Ab)
However, sometimes a note+number does not mean a proper chord at all, but an interval. Which leads us to:

CHORD CONSTRUCTION V: INTERVALS (inc. "5" chords / power chords)
Everyone knows the power chord, or "5" chord. Technically, a chord needs at least three notes -- two notes only make an interval. But we call them power chords anyway. In case you don't know, a 5th chord is simply a root plus its 5th, or
C5 = C G
G#5 = G# D#
("power chords" as played on guitar typically include the octave as well, EG C5 = C G C)
You *can* designate any interval with the root + a number:
A4 = A D
but this can lead to confusion since such a designation might be assumed to refer to a proper chord, especially with "6" chords.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION VI: "ADD" CHORDS
These are chords with added tones. Again, use the major scale of the root note. A C major chord is C-E-G. The 4th note in the C Major scale (remember that the root is #1) is F. So,
Cadd4 = C E F G.
and so on.
Gm7add6 = G Bb C D F
Aadd9 = A C# E B
This is pretty straightforward; the thing to notice is that the added notes aren't part of the stack of thirds, so for example,
C9 = C E G Bb D,
but
Cadd9 = C E G D (no 7th).
similarly, you can have
Cadd2 = C D E G,
while
C2 = C D

CHORD CONSTRUCTION VII: "NO" CHORDS
simply chords where a note that might normally be included, should be omitted:
A9no5 = A C# G B

CHORD CONSTRUCTION VIII: ALTERATIONS
Chords can be altered by sharpening or flattening any of the notes. IMHO, alterations are best notated by a + (for sharp) or - (for flat) followed by the interval's number:
Cm+5 = C Eb G#
A-5 = A Eb (d000000000m!)
C7+11 = C E G Bb (D) F# (this can also be written as C-11 -- remember that 11th chords include the 7th anyway -- but it seems to be common practice to write it this way)
C11-9 = C E G Bb Db F (note that while ordinary 11th chords don't necessarily include the 9th, any time a note is mentioned explicitly like this, we know it's mandatory)
E7-9 = E G# B D G (the famous Hendrix chord!)
Am7-5 = A C Eb G (this, BTW is also known as a half-diminished chord)
GmMaj7+5-9+11 = G Bb D# F# Ab C# (This is probably not the best name for this chord, but...)
and so on
The # and b signs are also used to designate alterations, but I think they shouldn't be because this creates a quagmire of ambiguity: If you see A#9, does it mean A major with a sharpened ninth, or A-sharp major? Only the writer knows... And this is why I also recommend not using + to denote augmented chords -- so that it may be reserved for this use.
Of course, you won't see alterations to the 3rds or 7ths because that would just turn them into different "regular" (unaltered) chrords.
You may also see "alt" chords -- EG: C9alt. I think this shorthand is mainly confined to jazz. This means that the 5th and 9th are altered. Usually (I think), this means that it doesn't matter which alterations you choose -- just don't use a natural 5th or 9th. Sometimes I think, however, that "alt" is intended specifically to mean #5#9.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION IX: SUSPENDED (sus) CHORDS
So far all our chords have been major or minor -- that is, they have contained a note a major third or a minor third above the root. But what if a chord does not have such a note? In that case it's neither major or minor -- it's a suspended chord.
* a suspended chord is one with a second or fourth IN PLACE OF a third.
Remember again that the chord's root is the first note, and the "second" is the second note in the root's major scale, etc...
There are therefore two types of suspended chords: sus2 & sus4. For example:
Csus2 = C D G
Csus4 = C F G
(why the term "suspended" chord? Well, the long & short of it is that in traditional theory, these chords are stopgaps in the transition from a tense/dissonant chord back to a consonant proper triad. In other words, they're used to suspend the resolution of dissonance, for a beat or a bar. But in contemporary popular music, we don't care if they lead into proper major/minor triads or not -- they're their own chord)
If you only see "sus" (no 2 or 4), it usually means sus4, but sometimes it simply means that the composer doesn't care which one you use -- as long as there's no third. I really can't emphasize this enough -- suspended chords have no third and are neither major nor minor.

CHORD CONSTRUCTION X: SLASH CHORDS
These take the form C/G, F#m/C#, etc. Slash chords can denote one of two things:
1) a polychord. This is simply two chords stacked on top of one another. For example,
C/F = C E G F A C
Gm/F7 = G Bb D F A C Eb

In contemporary popular music, you're more likely to see:
2) A chord with a designated root. The root is the note after the slash. It may or may not be a proper part of the chord:
C/G = G C E (G)
C/F = F C E G
Asus4/Eb = Eb A D E



----

OK, I was thinking of an end bit with a summary, and some basic notes on chord naming, but I'm gonna stop there for now. It certainly could be cleaned up. Any other chord types to add? How many mistakes can you spot in my chord spelling?