So what happened to that long list of devs supporting CLAP?

[donkey tugger]

Dunno if this has been mentioned but CLAP support should be in the next FL Studio beta of 21.3. From the company, in the forum;

clap.jpg

A big step forward I'd say.

[OdoSendaidokai]

VST2 is still allowed, as long as developers had signed the license then they can carry on developing and releasing VST2 plugins.

You do not have to pay to develop VST2 and VST3 plugins, so there are also free, I have not heard of any licenses being rejected.

Juce does not natively support Clap (VST, VST3, AU, AUv3, AAX and LV2) and by the looks of it won't for a while, the next version V8 will not include Clap, who knows maybe in a few years...

Nobody said you have to pay to develop VST2 or VST3. We were talking about the license, that is not free, because Steinberg can decide on daily basis to reject your license that you had requested correctly. THAT's the problem.

The VST2 SDK is not maintained anymore since 2018 and an unmaintained SDK in the software world is a slow death. So sure you could still develop further VST2 plugins, but chances are good DAW manufacturers are dropping support, to not have to maintain that code.

CLAP can be integrated in JUCE via extensions standard. There are some really good developer talks that explains that. And some of the statements why CLAP is not already in JUCE 8 you can read here https://forum.juce.com/t/fr-support-cla ... t/51860/25 Those people a are doing a great work with this huge framework and changes are better thought well and reliable instead of feature rushing.
So as I wrote, you can develop already CLAP plugins with JUCE extensions, even the support is not in the core yet.
https://github.com/free-audio/clap-juce-extensions

So everybody keep their pants calm. CLAP support from manufacturers is already noticeably growing. But you are not forced to use a specific plugin format as long your DAW manufacturer is not forcing you to do.

And Musicians don't care about plugin formats. They care about that their plugins are reliable available for a long time, that they are working and that they are able to provide features to support their creativity and use the given resources good.

[Urs]

https://steinbergmedia.github.io/vst3_d ... nsing.html

Q: I am a developer/company and I want to develop and distribute a VST 2 plug-in and/or host in binary form.

If you have signed the VST 2 license agreement (before October 2018), you can.
If not, you are not allowed to distribute it!
See here!

You might want to reads the revised licensing terms for VST3 SDK. It explicitly does not include a license for VST2, and it also explicitly cancels any prior VST2 license agreement.

[BobDog]

https://steinbergmedia.github.io/vst3_d ... nsing.html

Q: I am a developer/company and I want to develop and distribute a VST 2 plug-in and/or host in binary form.

If you have signed the VST 2 license agreement (before October 2018), you can.
If not, you are not allowed to distribute it!
See here!

You might want to reads the revised licensing terms for VST3 SDK. It explicitly does not include a license for VST2, and it also explicitly cancels any prior VST2 license agreement.

Do you have one > 2.2.5?

Edit: I have posted in the "Selling VST2 after October 2018: Steinberg agreement" thread...

[Urs]

Do you have one > 2.2.5?

What do you mean by 2.2.5? For VST2 there was only ever a license for the VST2 SDK, regardless of any version. For VST3, each several version updates so far required a separate signed license agreement for closed source development.

Edit: Ah, I see, the VST3 license agreement is at 2.2.5. - I'm not sure if this is what we have. The wording in §s 1 and 9 is still pretty much the same though.

[BobDog]

Thanks Urs,

For everyone else not looking at the other thread, Urs has pointed out a section in the VST 3 license agreement that specifically cancels all other agreements with Steinberg, the VST 2 SDK being one of them.

So it looks like every DAW will have to drop VST 2 support.

[Dionysos]

So it looks like every DAW will have to drop VST 2 support.

Surely that part of the license only applies to developers wanting to build/publish VST2 plugins, not host them. I think not even Steinberg would be delusional enough to demand all hosts axe backwards compatibility with VST 2.

[BobDog]

The agreement is for host and plugin development.

[Trancit]

Anyway... Steinberg did the biggest favour to the CLAP world...

They have clearly shown how fast they can and will pull the plug which forces every developer with a bit of common sense more and more towards a more safe plugin standard...
Dealing with Steinberg is setting every devs work on risk... and as all other standards are either product or platform specific CLAP can only be the logical alternative...

[perpetual3]

As long as Steinberg remains entrenched in the film/video game world I don’t think care.

Anyway... Steinberg did the biggest favour to the CLAP world...

They have clearly shown how fast they can and will pull the plug which forces every developer with a bit of common sense more and more towards a more safe plugin standard...
Dealing with Steinberg is setting every devs work on risk... and as all other standards are either product or platform specific CLAP can only be the logical alternative...

[OdoSendaidokai]

Maybe you can trust Steinberg, why not ... but what can happen when there are some investors buying Steinberg and wanting to make more money by selling licenses for developing and hosting. Or maybe just offering subscriptions for developers.

Then you were smart to support another industry ready plugin format with a free license that is already widely spread. And your customers and many musicians will be happy that they still are able to use all their projects and tools without someone suddenly shutting down their work by a law.

So the most important topic in this discussion is not about which features are better, it is about reliability for the future. For the DAW and plugin manufactures and the customers to not be put out of business by a plugin format suddenly owned by some money hungry investors.

[Trancit]

As far as I have understood if you develop your plugin in CLAP you can easily wrap it into VST3 as well...

If I understood correctly and if I would be a developer I would immediately jump onto this wagon to be on the safe side... what can I lose??

[JsinOwl]

To me, the most important thing about CLAP is that it's open source; the technical benefits are icing on the cake.

[mudi1974]

Maybe you can trust Steinberg, why not ... but what can happen when there are some investors buying Steinberg and wanting to make more money by selling licenses for developing and hosting. Or maybe just offering subscriptions for developers.

Steinberg is owned by Yamaha. Why would they want to sell this core asset to investors? Don't think that it would make sense and don't believe this will ever happen.

[Trancit]

Maybe you can trust Steinberg, why not ... but what can happen when there are some investors buying Steinberg and wanting to make more money by selling licenses for developing and hosting. Or maybe just offering subscriptions for developers.

Steinberg is owned by Yamaha. Why would they want to sell this core asset to investors? Don't think that it would make sense and don't believe this will ever happen.

At the very end it doesn´t matter...
It´s dangerous anyway that the rights and the saying about a standard like this lies in the hand of a single company which is on top a competitor to all others...
So CLAP is the only logical way for every developer in the future and actually those people should be smart enough to understand that it´s easier and much more safe to go the CLAP route instead of hoping that Steinberg doesn´t get more crazy...