ATTENTION! For those who want to use Tracktion Waveform in their workflow!

[talby]

(...) yesterday’s crashes: I decided to record a software synthesizer, sent the sound to another track, and when I started recording, Waveform just started to crash. After 5 attempts I stopped))

Does this happen with any software synthesizer? Also with the ones coming delivered with Waveform FREE and Waveform PRO? Or is this happening with specific synth plugins from a third party, and which plugins are the problematic ones?

Did activation or deactivation of the "plugin sandboxing" in WF12.5.11 changed the behaviour somehow? Maybe the plugin comes with its own sandboxing and this interferes with the WF12.5.11 sandboxing?

Happening with the WF12.5.11 version of Win, Mac or Linux? With a VST, VST3, LV2 plugin?

[nowgad]

talby thank you very much for your interest and, probably, for your desire to help. But, I know Waveform very well and this is just another whim of this daw. The plugins I use are vst3 in 98% of cases. These plugins have been tested in other projects where there is no such problem. This is simply a statement of fact. I won’t even contact support, because the answer will be the same: the problem could not be reproduced, or something like that. I use this topic for, sort of, notes about problems with Waveform. I’m not even sure that if I open the project today, this problem will remain. This happened too; There was a problem, I got angry, closed it, didn’t touch the program for a couple of days, and then everything worked fine. It gets boring. I remember all my actions, I remember everything I did and can reproduce it, but the problem is gone, it no longer exists. So, thank you!
It would be better if the developers added such an opportunity, such random changes, to the left and right channels))

[dysjoint]

I glanced at this thread a while back and didn't understand the issue by the descriptions alone. I just watched the video; presumably this doesn't happen with standard 'render to wav' functions? I've not noticed any timing issues in my projects, though I haven't used Waveform much for a couple of years (since they rewrote the audio engine). If this is just an issue with using a plugin output as a recording input, when is this type of function useful? I guess going out through hardware of some kind, re-amping guitars or suchlike?

It can affect all rendering. I did a few tests a while back and found that generally Waveform compensated for the latency on the track being rendered, but didn't account for latency on other tracks. So if the latency on the rendered track was 45 ms that would be shifted accurately, but if you had a reverb or linear phase eq with 100ms of latency on an unrelated track, then my renders would be 55 ms out (so - 45ms {good} +100ms = 55ms).
Tracktion/Waveform used to be perfectly capable as an audio editor but now there are a lot of variables. PDC, meta data written, meta data read, proxy files on or off, lagrange or sinc function, etc. Trying to get a rendered file to phase cancel with the original file is an endeavour. One thing I didn't consider at all is the sandboxing factor. I might trial that sometime if I remember.
I've been playing around, trying to make some IR's, and have finally succumbed and downloaded Audacity, because sometimes these small editing things matter.

[chagzuki]

It can affect all rendering. I did a few tests a while back and found that generally Waveform compensated for the latency on the track being rendered, but didn't account for latency on other tracks. So if the latency on the rendered track was 45 ms that would be shifted accurately, but if you had a reverb or linear phase eq with 100ms of latency on an unrelated track, then my renders would be 55 ms out (so - 45ms {good} +100ms = 55ms).

Hmm, I'm going to have to look out for that. I've used several instances of MSpectraldynamics in one project, and that plugin has massive latency, but I never noticed any issues with timing.

[dysjoint]

It can affect all rendering. I did a few tests a while back and found that generally Waveform compensated for the latency on the track being rendered, but didn't account for latency on other tracks. So if the latency on the rendered track was 45 ms that would be shifted accurately, but if you had a reverb or linear phase eq with 100ms of latency on an unrelated track, then my renders would be 55 ms out (so - 45ms {good} +100ms = 55ms).

Hmm, I'm going to have to look out for that. I've used several instances of MSpectraldynamics in one project, and that plugin has massive latency, but I never noticed any issues with timing.

Do you have your plugins sandboxes, out of curiosity?
Easiest way to check is put Melda (or whatever) on one track, put a snare on another track, render that snare track to a new track. On the rendered track, invert the polarity with the volume and pan plugin. In theory the original snare and the rendered track should phase cancel and produce silence. (you might already know this, just leaving it here for the discussion)
By the way, repeat this test with no PDC factor. A blank project with no plugins. Just the render test.

[chagzuki]

Do you have your plugins sandboxes, out of curiosity?
Easiest way to check is put Melda (or whatever) on one track, put a snare on another track, render that snare track to a new track. On the rendered track, invert the polarity with the volume and pan plugin. In theory the original snare and the rendered track should phase cancel and produce silence. (you might already know this, just leaving it here for the discussion)
By the way, repeat this test with no PDC factor. A blank project with no plugins. Just the render test.

I've had sandboxing off during the last few years of usage, as it prevented certain UI controls from working, particularly with UVI Falcon.

[dysjoint]

Do you have your plugins sandboxes, out of curiosity?
Easiest way to check is put Melda (or whatever) on one track, put a snare on another track, render that snare track to a new track. On the rendered track, invert the polarity with the volume and pan plugin. In theory the original snare and the rendered track should phase cancel and produce silence. (you might already know this, just leaving it here for the discussion)
By the way, repeat this test with no PDC factor. A blank project with no plugins. Just the render test.

I've had sandboxing off during the last few years of usage, as it prevented certain UI controls from working, particularly with UVI Falcon.

Thanks. I might have to try that and see if it changes anything.

[nowgad]

Bug or not a bug? That is the question...

https://youtu.be/UG5jXJ_G-dQ

[nowgad]

https://youtu.be/fYxC8BbWrJQ
I was prompted to record a video about this error by this topic: viewtopic.php?t=604654
this has been described several times on this forum, and the project with this error has been described and sent to support several times. As always, it's been a year or two. There is no answer. we return to the question of working with a large number of tracks and the claimed 4000+ tracks and working with them normally))))) moreover, everything is in the video by default. but in a working project, this problem manifests itself on about 30 tracks.
I'm sorry, I'll explain. with a relatively small project, when you turn on several tracks to listen to, and then simultaneously turn off this function, Waveform crashes.
Although no, I’m lying. It was stated that it was possible to create 4000+ tracks, but nothing was said about how it would work. Sorry, I'm a liar. I admit my mistakes.
With the way the program works, it looks more like the lite version of other DAWs, where the number of tracks is deliberately reduced. But for others it is free, but here it is a version with a proud PRO prefix.))

[operandx]

I'm sorry, I'll explain. with a relatively small project, when you turn on several tracks to listen to, and then simultaneously turn off this function, Waveform crashes.
Although no, I’m lying. It was stated that it was possible to create 4000+ tracks, but nothing was said about how it would work. Sorry, I'm a liar. I admit my mistakes.
With the way the program works, it looks more like the lite version of other DAWs, where the number of tracks is deliberately reduced. But for others it is free, but here it is a version with a proud PRO prefix.))

I just tried a test similar to yours, 101 tracks with a couple of plugins on each. It doesn't crash. I'm on Windows.

[nowgad]

...

Great. Well, what does it depend on? I conducted the first test only with Catalyst and Biotek2, and Waveform crashed on approximately the same number of tracks. I have Win10 and an i7 processor. What could be causing this? Because of the old processor?

[operandx]

...

Great. Well, what does it depend on? I conducted the first test only with Catalyst and Biotek2, and Waveform crashed on approximately the same number of tracks. I have Win10 and an i7 processor. What could be causing this? Because of the old processor?

You had 81 tracks in the vid, several with Biotek. What was the CPU load, memory usage. Take any claim of 'x' number of tracks with a pinch of salt as it depends on hardware resources as well as software.

[nowgad]

...

I've been keeping an eye on this. The processor was loaded at no more than 40%, memory usage was about 30%. There were no sharp jumps in the charts, either here or there.

[operandx]

...

I've been keeping an eye on this. The processor was loaded at no more than 40%, memory usage was about 30%. There were no sharp jumps in the charts, either here or there.

I didn't use Catalyst in my test as I don't have it and only have Biotek 1 here. Do you get the crash irrespective of the plugins in the edit? Would be worth discounting WF interaction with specific plugins as cause of crash.

[nowgad]

Do you get the crash irrespective of the plugins in the edit?

yes, it does not depend on the choice of plugins.