List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)

[FranklyFlawless]

I have added the Artiphon Chorda as an entry into the Guitar list, and marked its status as unreleased. As well, in the second post, I have added the Der Mann mit der Maschine DROID X7 as an entry into the Interfaces list, and marked its status as released. When used with the Der Mann mit der Maschine DROID master, it allows MPE MIDI to CV conversion. Special thanks to Trevor Meier on Mod Wiggler for providing details about these latter two products' MPE compatibility.

[BobDog]

Looking at the Antiphon Chords website I'm far too ugly, unstylish and old to play one of them!

[FranklyFlawless]

The status of this.is.NOISE.inc MIDI BLASTER has been changed from preorder to released.

[FranklyFlawless]

To simplify updates going forward, I will condense them into lists instead.

New entries:

• [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 49 - Preorder
• [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 61 - Preorder
• [Keyboard] Native Instruments Kontrol S49 Mk3 - Preorder
• [Keyboard] Native Instruments Kontrol S61 Mk3 - Preorder
• [Keyboard] Native Instruments Kontrol S88 Mk3 - Preorder
• [Oblique] Netz - Unreleased

Status updates:

• [Guitar] Artiphon Chorda - Unreleased to Preorder

[SteveElbows]

Polyphonic aftertouch is nice but is not MPE, so why would those keyboards be included?

edit - Maybe the Korg isnt occifially announced yet, but I do note that some premature product listings mention MPE. I'll have to wait for more detail to see what that actually means. I dont think the NI ones mention MPE.

[FranklyFlawless]

Polyphonic aftertouch is nice but is not MPE, so why would those keyboards be included?

edit - Maybe the Korg isnt occifially announced yet, but I do note that some premature product listings mention MPE. I'll have to wait for more detail to see what that actually means. I dont think the NI ones mention MPE.

The Korg Keystage may have been accidentally revealed prematurely by B&H: I have yet to see any music news outlet or Korg themselves mentioning it.

The official product pages for the Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series do not mention MPE, but the Sweetwater product pages do. For example, with the flagship S88:

With the Kontrol keyboard controllers, expressivity has never been more nuanced. Onboard polyphonic aftertouch provides detailed control of each note, letting you engage changes in pressure and velocity across chords to elicit evocative passages and progressions. Plus, the deeply customizable suite of assignment options lets you modulate pitch, cutoff, vibrato, and virtually anything else with your virtual instrument of choice, resulting in uncompromising MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression). What’s more, because each keybed was developed in collaboration with Fatar, it captures not just the nuances of each manner of expression, but is fully calibrated for the extreme resolution of MIDI 2.0 and the creative possibilities that it affords on any manner of instrument or control.

...

Native Instruments has prioritized integration with each iteration of the Kontrol S Smart Keyboard Controllers, and the Mk3 continues this capacity for accommodation with more customization than ever before. Its USB-C bus-powered architecture supports MIDI connectivity over USB for seamless use with your DAW. The onboard 5-pin DIN MIDI I/O vastly expands interoperative possibilities well beyond the digital frontiers of your NKS virtual instruments, even transmitting MPE data for compatible instruments and devices. You’ll also find a quartet of 1/4-inch TRS jacks for flexible pedal usage: one for sustain, one for expression, and two assignable inputs that can facilitate any number of supplementary control or expression options.

Native Instruments Kontrol S88 Mk3 Features:

• Onboard polyphonic aftertouch and MPE capabilities mean deep, customizable expression with your virtual instruments, breathing new life into every sound

...

• 5-pin DIN MIDI in/out allows for extensive interoperative use with most arrangements, including MPE and polyphonic aftertouch data for compatible instruments

Normally I would trust the manufacturer in this scenario, but it is very difficult to challenge Sweetwater's credibility, expertise, and claims.

[SteveElbows]

Maybe, I wouldnt like to guess either way. I'll wait for the manual. Some in the industry do conflate MPE and poly aftertouch, but I cannot reach a conclusion either way at this stage.

In any case devices with normal keyboards that do support MPE usually dont bring any extra dimensions of expression to the mix, just support for transmitting the poly aftertouch MIDI data in MPE form rather than traditional form. When the Hydrasynth did this it at least had a synth engine with MPE support so its MPE mode did actually unlock something extra if the Hydrasynth was paired with a full MPE controller. With keyboard devices that are just controllers, the only advantage MPE mode looks like it will have is the ability to control any synths you have that might support MPE but dont support poly aftertouch MIDI messages.

By the way, the presence of the PolyTouch logo on the Korg images implies that Korg have licensed the poly aftertouch keybed from ASM.

[LarsDaniel]

My understanding (from seeing a couple of in-depth reviews) is that the new Mk3 series has polyphonic aftertouch. That's it. I would definitely not call them MPE capable keyboards, but since MPE is one of the hotter buzzwords of the day, I can see how it is a great temptation for sales people to get to mention MPE in their sales pitch. Given that polyphonic aftertouch (or rather "channel pressure") is part of MPE, it is kind of riding the border of what could be almost true to say.
But the fact is, that we are just dealing with a keyboard that has polyphonic aftertouch, similar to what once was in Prophet T8 and Yamaha CS80, and I think we all agree to not call them MPE keyboards.

[ThomasHelzle]

I didn't look into the details, but that could be the one thing that makes it "MPEish" actually:
Polyphonic Aftertouch is NOT part of MPE.
MPE uses Channel Pressure, but with a different channel per note.
So if those keyboards are able to send their Poly AT as channel per note pressure, that would make them MPE compatible, at least for that one dimension.
And that would make it a "Midi Polyphonic Expression", even though relatively limited.

The more modulation the better, it's what makes music alive

Cheers,

Tom

[FranklyFlawless]

Maybe, I wouldnt like to guess either way. I'll wait for the manual. Some in the industry do conflate MPE and poly aftertouch, but I cannot reach a conclusion either way at this stage.

I agree, and I would consider removing the entries from this list too, but this thread is how I keep track of all mentionings of MPE controllers across the Internet, even if the claims themselves may be dubious at best.

There are no manuals for the Korg Keystage nor the Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series, so I cannot necessarily confirm nor deny B&H and Sweetwater's claims. Even if I did preemptively remove the entries based on all current available information contradicting these claims, it is obvious that there is not enough information to make an informed decision, so for now it makes more sense to keep the entries here, even if they are proven to be wrong later. I do not know what B&H and Sweetwater know about these products.

[SteveElbows]

Sure. The CC74 dimension is optional anyway, as per the official MPE spec. The best guess for now is that Korg may have done an MPE mode in the same way Hydrasynth has, and that such a guess as it applies to Native Instruments is even more of a shot in the dark.

Peoples impression of what MPE means was largely based on the MPE controllers that emerged in the first few eras of MPE controllers, and a single list isnt going to overcome any issues with that. For example, ROLIs '5 dimensions of touch' marketing means that quite a lot of people moan that synths and controllers 'arent full MPE' if they dont include release velocity, but in fact I dont think release velocity is mentioned in the official MPE spec at all, rather its a lesser utilised part of the original MIDI spec.

I suppose the ideal solution for conveying all this info would be a table, not dissimilar to MIDI implementation tables, where there are different columns for each dimension. Dont worry though, I'm not actually proposing that you turn your list into such a table.

[FranklyFlawless]

I suppose the ideal solution for conveying all this info would be a table, not dissimilar to MIDI implementation tables, where there are different columns for each dimension. Dont worry though, I'm not actually proposing that you turn your list into such a table.

I agree, but KVR Audio does not support tables using BBCode or HTML. As far as I am aware, there are no crowdsourced tables focusing on products with MPE or MIDI 2.0 implementations. This was one of the reasons why I suggested using MediaWiki as a solution on Poly Expression, but Mark is not interested in the idea.

So, if you or anyone else are interested in a "Synthesizers Wiki" or similar using MediaWiki as the basis, that would significantly reduce the barrier for contributors and allow me to transfer my lists to it. This would also allow me to dedicate more precious time towards developing my proficiency on the LinnStrument, instead of me manually fetching/web crawling various websites for MPE-related information.

[SteveElbows]

Maybe, I wouldnt like to guess either way. I'll wait for the manual. Some in the industry do conflate MPE and poly aftertouch, but I cannot reach a conclusion either way at this stage.

I agree, and I would consider removing the entries from this list too, but this thread is how I keep track of all mentionings of MPE controllers across the Internet, even if the claims themselves may be dubious at best.

There are no manuals for the Korg Keystage nor the Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series, so I cannot necessarily confirm nor deny B&H and Sweetwater's claims. Even if I did preemptively remove the entries based on all current available information contradicting these claims, it is obvious that there is not enough information to make an informed decision, so for now it makes more sense to keep the entries here, even if they are proven to be wrong later. I do not know what B&H and Sweetwater know about these products.

Manuals are now available for the Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series MK3:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... downloads/

No mention of MPE or any settings I can see that even hint at such functionality. Same with the new version of their Komplete Kontrol software. Time to remove them I think.

MIDI 2.0 is mentioned but not in any detail so we'll likely have to wait much longer to see when MIDI 2.0 products that make use of the aspects of MIDI 2.0 that are equivalent to/better than MPE actually come into existence.

The Korg still hasnt been officially announced yet after the leak, I think I heard it may be announced in November but am not sure.

Meanwhile ROLI are teasing the return of another product on November 1st. An updated Seaboard Block is probably the most likely contender.

[SteveElbows]

The Korg Keystage got its official release announcement and as expected per the leak, MPE is listed as a feature. Also as expected, it doesnt have any extra dimensions of expressivity so the MPE support is just equivalent to poly aftertouch, presumably the same sort of experience as using Hydrasynth as a MPE controller.

[FranklyFlawless]

Manuals are now available for the Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series MK3:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... downloads/

No mention of MPE or any settings I can see that even hint at such functionality. Same with the new version of their Komplete Kontrol software. Time to remove them I think.

Yes, I agree. The Native Instruments Kontrol S-Series entries have been removed from the list. Thank you for your hard work.

The Korg Keystage got its official release announcement and as expected per the leak, MPE is listed as a feature. Also as expected, it doesnt have any extra dimensions of expressivity so the MPE support is just equivalent to poly aftertouch, presumably the same sort of experience as using Hydrasynth as a MPE controller.

Yes, I watched the two videos on the product page, but MPE is still mentioned within them so I had to research further. MPE is referenced a few times in the Owner's Manual:

Keyboard

The keyboard on the Keystage supports note on/off and velocity, and you can control aftertouch and MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) according to how hard you push into the keys.

Performance and control data is output from the global MIDI channel (the base MIDI channel used for transmit­ting and receiving data).
Controlling the sound via how hard you push into the keys is set to polyphonic aftertouch by default.

You can change the global MIDI channel and aftertouch settings from the settings screen.
→Configuring the overall operations of the Keystage

Tip: You can also use the KORG Kontrol Editor to configure the MIDI channels that are used by the keyboard, knobs, modulation wheel and other controllers. For details, visit the Korg website (www.korg.com).

Aftertouch

With aftertouch, you can make the sound change by pushing into the keys after you’ve pressed them.

• Channel aftertouch (channel pressure)
  This applies aftertouch on a per-channel basis. The overall sound changes regardless of which keys you play.
• Polyphonic aftertouch (polyphonic key pressure)
  This applies aftertouch on a per-key basis. You can make the effect change according to how hard you press into each key, or apply aftertouch to only one of the notes in a chord.

The aftertouch sensors on the keyboard may wear out if you press into the keyboard too hard. For this rea­son, avoid pressing into the keyboard harder than necessary.

MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression)

The Keystage supports MPE pressure (pressing into the keys). When you use MPE, each of the keys that you play on the Keystage is split into its own MIDI channel, and you can apply pressure control separately to each of their sounds. A sound generator that supports MPE is required to use this feature.

Compare this to the Hydrasynth Deluxe's Owner's Manual:

What is MPE?

MPE stands for “MIDI Polyphonic Expression”. It’s a newer MIDI protocol used mainly by alternate
controllers like Roli instruments, Haken Continuum, and LinnStrument. When active, the voices
of your Hydrasynth break into individual channels so each note can have its own pitch bend,
timbre and pressure control.

Hydrasynth already supports polyphonic aftertouch, so MPE pressure is mapped automati-
cally to Poly aftertouch. When the Hydrasynth Deluxe has MPE set to ON, any patch that uses
PolyAftT as a mod source should respond automatically to pressure sent by an MPE controller.

So, this poses an important question. Does MPE pressure fulfill the definition of an MPE-compatible controller? Korg explicitly claims yes, while Ashun Sound Machines does not provide an explicit answer. If so, then the Korg Keystage is kept on the list, while the Hydrasynth Explorer, Keyboard, and Deluxe are also added as new entries. Otherwise, the Korg Keystage is removed. For now, I am tentatively keeping the Korg Keystage as an entry on the list for further discussion and discourse.