Why did you leave Studio One?

[oneway]

it’s an example of Studio One’s smart development, because it doesn’t have a clip launcher ... GTFO.

People have moved on to electronic and digital forms of creating.

It's so weird that Studio One is such a battleground for this argument. I've produced songs in a variety of styles and in every single one of them I've found some use for a pattern based sequencer, in my case Logic's Live Loops. I've seen full on indie rock songs start off as audio loops and V.I. sequences in Ableton's Session View. Are tools really genre limited? Akai samplers are thought of being used in certain genres but they found some use in comping vocals in the early 90's...

And it's not like Studio One is some exclusive home for the pure musicians, they sell loops in their own store!

[jamcat]

Studio One also has a pattern based sequencer.

[oneway]

Studio One also has a pattern based sequencer.

I mean one that can be triggered/looped and works with audio as well as patterns or midi events, what you called a "clip launcher".

[jamcat]

Here’s the Pattern sequencer in Studio One

https://youtu.be/fUWGjCF-iic


And here is the clip launcher in the Show page that I mentioned (way #3)

https://youtu.be/_SZxz2WfFLo

[oneway]

I'm familiar with the Show page. That's for using it in live performances or theater. I use Logic's or Live's during the writing process and it populates the Arrange view with the clips I was triggering so I can begin editing further. Studio One doesn't have this feature and that's fine, but there's nothing inherently wrong or unmusical with features like Live Loops or Session View.

[jamcat]

there's nothing inherently wrong or unmusical with features like Live Loops or Session View.

I’m not saying it’s unmusical or whatever, but it is incompatible with linear creation of music of determinate length with a definitive beginning, middle, and end (aka a “song.”) That’s what the Song page in Studio One is for.

It can be compatible with certain types of live performances, though, which is why you will find it where it belongs, on the Show page.

[oneway]

I’m not saying it’s unmusical or whatever, but it is incompatible with linear creation of music of determinate length with a definitive beginning, middle, and end.

OK. Agree to disagree. In other DAWs I find it quite useful to aid the process of "linear creation."

[jamcat]

Looping is antithetical to creativity.
It’s a sure way to get in a rut and never move forward. Literally and figuratively.

It is the bane of songwriters.

[syntonica]

Looping is antithetical to creativity.
It’s a sure way to get in a rut and never move forward. Literally and figuratively.

It is the bane of songwriters.

That's a little extreme. I use loops as laboratories to monkey with different ideas. All without needing a clip launcher. I just use the solo and mute buttons.

That said, I find arranging a song with only loops to be quite limiting in the end. Nothing better than taking some clip and exploding it over the track, transposing, adding fills, removing figures, etc. until it's one long cohesive phrase without boring repetition.

Anyway, to each their own, wherever they find inspiration. (But Oops, All Loops is boring! )

[jamcat]

Sure, I’ll loop between 2 markers to jam over a section in order to write an accompanying part. Or I’ll simply duplicate the other parts a bunch of times. This is also where the scratch pad can come in.

But the difference there from a clip launcher type of situation is it isn’t a permanent fixture of the song. It is a temporarily suspended state. Or at least it ought to be. Half the problem with turning on loop mode is it’s hard to find an exit strategy once it’s engaged.

[BONES]

That is indeed an awesome way to work, and you can just keep multiple versions of the song within a single song (technically different files in the History folder, but it behaves as one.) So you can have, for example, an album version, a radio edit, and an extended mix under a single song title in your Songs list. Then you just pull up the specific version you want at any given time.

Sorry, I don't see the point when I can just have XXXXXX-album master, XXXXXX-radio edit and XXXXXX-disco mix all in my song list and I can directly pick any or all of them to work on. They all get saved in the same place - easy to find, easy to open.

I had always used markers to label my song sections.

Why? I can see from the arrange view where the different sections are, I don't need markers at all. I've always assumed that kind of stuff was there for when you pass the project on to someone else to mix or whatever.

It's not only better for keeping track of song sections, but it's great for easily building and rearranging the song structure. Because it doesn't just exist linearly in the timeline. There is also a side-panel for it that opens in the Inspector on the left. There, the sections appear as a stack, from top to bottom. Move a section to a different location in the stack, and the song arrangement in the timeline switches up to match it. Duplicate a section in the stack, and it is automatically duplicated in the timeline. Instant extended mix.

How is it easier to keep opening new windows that reduce the size of the window you re trying to work in? If that was something I wanted to do, and I can assure you it is not, I'd just cut my tracks at those points so I could drag 'em around at will. Most of the time I don't even need to cut anything because the way I work ensures the verse and chorus are usually in separate clips anyway.

The scratchpad is exactly that—a temporary sidebar. It's not meant to be a permanent fixture.

I still find it much easier to just drag-duplicate bits further down in the timeline and play with them there or experiment in-situ and either save or revert.

It's a blank workspace where you can work out a song section in isolation, without having to worry about moving other sections around to make room. Once you've got it sorted out, you just drag it over to the Arrange Track where you want it in the song, and then hide the scratchpad again. It's like a wide margin to work out the maths.

Still a lot of extra work for no benefit.

Say you came up with a new section or a variation that you want to keep, but you don’t know what to do with just yet. You can tuck it away for later in a scratchpad, and you get it out of the way of your main timeline, so you can move forward.

Or you drag it past the loop end point. Much less hassle.

The best part is you can later drag it from the scratchpad directly to where you want it in the song, all within the Inspector. When you start using it like that, it actually makes quite a lot of sense.

Not really. It's a feature that makes something you can already do more work thana it needs to be.

Here's another example of Studio One's slow development. Waveform 13 just got a clip launcher, who's next Cubase?

You say that like it's a desirable feature but adding it to Studio One would, in fact, make me far more likely to switch to a DAW that was more focused on my needs, not trying to be all things to all people. If they were smart, maybe they'd make a separate product for that market but it's not something I believe they see as worth the effort. At least I hope that's how they see it.

To be fair to Waveform13 . They have totally done a great job with there clip launcher . You don't even have to SEE or KNOW it's there . That's a win win for everyone. It was done very tastefully .

But imagine how much better they could have made Waveform in other ways if they hadn't wasted so much development time/money on that feature. Because, I gotta say, there is plenty of room for Waveform to get better without adding a clip launcher to it.

[BONES]

You think that old school guitar players on an old school forum is the direction the entire Studio One community wants?

Well, of course he does, he told you about the feature polls and how a clip launcher never gets enough votes to be apriority for Presonus. I don't know how much more definitive he could have been.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but guitar music isn't popular anymore,

Really? Do you know how many copies the last AC/DC album sold (released in 2020)? It was no. 1 in:
UK
USA
Australia (of course)
Sweden
Canada
Germany
France
Switzerland
Austria
New Zealand

And Rammstein's 2022 album did almost as well, although it only got to no. 3 in Australia and the UK and only as far as no. 15 in the US. But it was no. 1 everywhere else.

And BTW, Studio One actually has something like a clip launcher in the Show page, which is the place for something like that, where it’s been for quite a while. But no one talks about it because no one cares about that sort of thing, and the handful of people clamoring for it don’t even know it’s there already, because they are largely ignorant to how Studio One works and all of the features it already offers.

Correct. What the Show Page, in concert with the remote app, offers is a far more comprehensive set of tools to use live and their Clip Launcher isn't even the centrepiece or most important aspect of it.

Are tools really genre limited?

At least as much as genres are limited by tools.

Akai samplers are thought of being used in certain genres but they found some use in comping vocals in the early 90's...

Whoops! Your ignorance is showing.

I'm familiar with the Show page. That's for using it in live performances or theater. I use Logic's or Live's during the writing process and it populates the Arrange view with the clips I was triggering so I can begin editing further. Studio One doesn't have this feature

Maybe not but it has the same functionality, implemented in several different ways that have already been explained or demonstrated. You guys are just too stupid, inexperienced or hidebound to understand.

Looping is antithetical to creativity.

I think Reggie Watts might disagree with you -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfkPmbg1ymM

[jamcat]

How is it easier to keep opening new windows that reduce the size of the window you re trying to work in? If that was something I wanted to do, and I can assure you it is not, I'd just cut my tracks at those points so I could drag 'em around at will. Most of the time I don't even need to cut anything because the way I work ensures the verse and chorus are usually in separate clips anyway.

You can drag the divider that separates the main arranger window and the scratchpad almost all the way to the left, so the scratchpad is taking up almost all the screen space that the main arranger window normally does, while you work in it.

I still find it much easier to just drag-duplicate bits further down in the timeline and play with them there or experiment in-situ and either save or revert.

That's what I would normally do too, but I think the scratchpad helps you stay more organised and focused. You can just tuck the part away for later, and keep working on the main arrangement without any literal or figurative roadblocks getting in your way.

Or you drag it past the loop end point. Much less hassle.

Or you lock yourself into a loop because you just don't want to deal with that other part yet, but now you're blocked in until you do. That's one way that songs end up permanently on the unfinished list.

Looping is antithetical to creativity.

I think Reggie Watts might disagree with you -

But that's why I also said this:

It can be compatible with certain types of live performances, though, which is why you will find it where it belongs, on the Show page.

[harddaysnight]

Looping is antithetical to creativity.
It’s a sure way to get in a rut and never move forward. Literally and figuratively.

It is the bane of songwriters.

What an absolute load of crap.

[THE INTRANCER]

Looping is antithetical to creativity.
It’s a sure way to get in a rut and never move forward. Literally and figuratively.

It is the bane of songwriters.

Loops are the foundation building blocks in the process of creating popular music and have been for hundreds of years. Whether that's repeating melodies, sound effects, or drums and percussion. The capabilities of individuals to produce music are down to the skills and abilities they have within themselves to do so. So what you've said is pretty much nonsense, particularly in a practical sense as loops can also provide inspiration for creativity and given the tools we have today to manipulate sound, the only limiting factor is your imagination.

In response to your other statements about Studio One's development. It's not your DAW to decide what others want to see developed for it, it's up to the creative developers to maximize the potential of the product for all users who wish to use it which not only improves the product but creates continual money flow for them to put food on the table.