MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

[BBFG#]

I have a giant box of five pin din cables I very rarely need now. But this is more about the specs right? Filling in more of the "undefined" with newer standards and putting it at a higher bit definition. So progress is good. But as others said, it's how the companies will implement it. They already ignore much of one in their hardware now. That means in reality it gives us mainly a promise of better performance and having a whole new list of excuses from those companies of why they think certain things "aren't really that important".
And yes, I run 99% from USB now. So just make sure the hardware is USB 3 please.

[BONES]

To be fair, I think the reason companies ignore so much of the MIDI spec is because it is so ancient and doesn't suit their goals, so they implement things in a way that works for them instead. If the new standard works better for them, you have to imagine they will be more interested in using/implementing it.

You've said that for as long as I've known you, and usually because you're a very organised guy musically, so fair enough.
For example, as new synths come around, you get them - but in your own time, and with caution, as you're v committed to what you're doing already.
You're just slower to adopt other people's ideas, as you already have so many of your own on the go.
Is this fair to say?

I think you're being very generous. I'm as big an idiot as anyone when it comes to jumping on bandwagons. I wasted plenty on Roland Boutique stuff and Korg's Mini/Monologue, for example, just by getting caught up in the hype.

I this case it's an honest desire to understand why I should care, beyond higher resolution automation/modulation being possible with controllers and when controlling external hardware. I've read the outline and I don't see a lot in there to justify the excitement I am seeing in this thread. It seems like it's just 32 bit precision/smoothness and something like AutoMap. Hardly earth shattering after 40-odd years.

I was expecting stuff like unlimited channels, MPE implemented in a single channel and other things like that. MPE as it is currently is a massive kludge and I can't see why it needs to be like that. If you can do velocity and after-touch per note, you should be able to do anything per note if you want to.

[nix808]

bones-
for me this microtonal thing is very interesting,
I like MIDI 1, it's sort of cool how the use of it sorta not complex

The pitch bend kludge for microtonal will not need to happen,
so using the wheel and setting bend range should become seamless/cease

[Tj Shredder]

I this case it's an honest desire to understand why I should care, beyond higher resolution automation/modulation being possible with controllers and when controlling external hardware. I've read the outline and I don't see a lot in there to justify the excitement I am seeing in this thread. It seems like it's just 32 bit precision/smoothness and something like AutoMap. Hardly earth shattering after 40-odd years.

I was expecting stuff like unlimited channels, MPE implemented in a single channel and other things like that. MPE as it is currently is a massive kludge and I can't see why it needs to be like that. If you can do velocity and after-touch per note, you should be able to do anything per note if you want to.

Not if the protocol is limited to slow serial 8-bit communication. If you want to you have MPE...

Midi 2.0 will transport per note expressions. You will be able to incorporate your Midi 2.0 hardware into your DAW like a VST (remembering all settings). All what you think is missing is in there... I am excited!
I wonder how fast it will be accepted by manufacturers and DAW devs...
Until then MPE is a working solution! I never reject solutions, no matter if they are a kludge or not!!! Its actually an elegant kludge... (Any working solution is by definition elegant, compared to no solution...)
I think Roland is on the jump already, I have seen an announcement for a big keyboard... (though keyboards are so last millenium...)

[Ploki]

MPE is an elegant kludge up until the point you start editing it

[Markus Krause]

So far i see Midi 2.0 as a proper implementation of MPE - without dirty Midi-hacks.

So my guess for the future is that more devices like the seaboard will appear.

We plan to support Midi 2.0 at least for Icarus2 and Electra2. From the technical side it is possible for all our plugins without major headaches, since we did not use the VST3.x SDK.

[Ploki]

i still don't know how they'll solve the editing part of it.
Having to edit 16 millions values instead of 127 or 16000 hardly seems like a solution.

Also, i'm pretty certain all the cool features will be on the Rise 25 mk2, and Rise25 will not be "flashed" to midi 2.0.

[Markus Krause]

If there should be no midi 2.0 support for the existing seaboards it should be possible to create a Midi-driver/middleware that translates the MPE messages to Midi 2.0. But that's an ugly solution.

As soon as Midi 2.0 will get more common MPE will quickly die. I will not longer recommend getting an MPE device to a customer unless the company confirms that Midi 2.0 support will be added in a free firmware update.

[Markus Krause]

I sent out a support ticked to Roli:

Dear Roli-team,

i am the developer of Tone2.com - a well known VST-company. I recently have added MPE-support for our synthesizer Icarus2.

I recommended your Seaboard devices to many of our customers. Now Midi 2.0 has been anouced and MPE will most likely replaced by it quickly.
Can i still recommend your existing devices to our customers, because you will add Midi 2.0 support in a free firmware-update? Or should people not longer purchase the existing devices and wait for new products which come with Midi 2.0.

Best Regards,
Markus Krause
Tone2.com Audiosoftware

[PAK]

i still don't know how they'll solve the editing part of it.
Having to edit 16 millions values instead of 127 or 16000 hardly seems like a solution.

Most virtual instruments can be completely mapped with a few hundred parameters. In those cases mapping difficulties are more about the unrealistically small size of almost all control surfaces and the (lack of) logic on the controller.

Things only tend to get really messy with multi-channel instruments (where all instrument controls are replicated per channel) and with modular instruments, where you can't predict the numbers or layout of controls. It's here that the two-way aspect of MIDI 2.0 can help, as the software can tell the controller what it needs to map. Even with the same amount of controls, moving things (like MPE) from a sprawling multi-channel MIDI affair, to one channel, with things arranged using logical names etc, will help.

But there's also no easy way around the fact that more complexity also requires better controller logic to manage well. Companies will still have to implement that side - all MIDI 2.0 does is take away regular MIDI limitations, the need to come up with work-arounds (Automap etc), and offer a pathway to more flexibility (including future expansion of the standard.. ).

For higher resolution controls, once they're more common, people will soon discover that physical size often matters - in terms of being able to use any increased resolution in a useful way. So, if companies try to churn out the same old controllers, MIDI 2.0 won't solve such limitations. It's a good example of how MIDI 2, by itself, isn't a magic answer.

[Niowiad]

Been waiting forever for MIDI 2.0, still have no clue on when it's actually happening.
BTW I've seen the new Roland 88 keys controller with Midi 2.0 support... no faders, no aftertouch, no thanks

[e-crooner]

(though keyboards are so last millenium...)

Still, a lot of people still use keyboards, and the number of companies making keyboards has increased a lot over the years.
Keyboards are here to stay, for a very long time. Just like emails, which some supposed experts said years ago would disappear soon. Yet, it turned out they were wrong because the alternatives can't really replace them.

[Ploki]

i'd guess he was just taking a piss

[e-crooner]

Are existing plugins affected if Midi 2 spreads? Do they have to be rewritten?

[Tj Shredder]

MPE is an elegant kludge up until the point you start editing it

Unless you do it in Bitwig... (as its translated to note expressions)
Midi 2.0 will certainly help with that as well... unless the DAW doesn’t support it...