Are Todays Daw's Making People Lazy Producers ?

[vurt]

i only left orion because the audio side was becoming more important and it was a bit naff for audio.
midi wise it was great.
for the beginner with less money, the included instruments where pretty damned good too


and as a "modular nerd" ill be honest, i never really clicked with reason.
used it through college because we had to, along with pro tools.
but have never used either in my personal works.

Have you tried Bitwig?

no. keep thinking about it, people say it would compliment my workflow. just never get time to put in to demoing it.

[_al_]

I think it's more a case of today's DAWs allowing more lazy people to become producers.

Artists are always going to make music, but now DJs are also going to make music. And now that all these people have saturated the music scene, the artists are having to become DJs, just to get noticed or earn a bit of cash

[Tj Shredder]

It is very obvious how much tools influence the music created with it. They help you to get through if you are lazy, though they are potent enough to create whatever music you can think of...
I learned that when I could get hands on an original UPIC. There it was easy to do continous glissandi, but it was almost impossible to create exact copies of sections, it was almost impossible to create exact pitches and so on. This had an enormous influence on the pieces made with it. You would focus on different things... But after working with this you would be more conscious about what would be difficult to achieve in a traditional DAW. You can create glissandi or have only similar and not exact copies also in Protools or even in Live, but if you never made the experience, its unlikely you get an idea how to break out of what the DAW is making easy for you. Your focus isn‘t there.
What the OP pointed out was also related to radio. And I agree, on any commercial channel you will find 95% boring non breathing Music (same BPM for the complete piece, no swing...)
But there is enough really good music around as well, its just not that easy to come across...

[jancivil]

I find it vastly easier to find great music, simply via Youtube than at any time in the past. But if it's about 'today's music', that's a bit of a red herring, I think.

Also, radio is a bit of a red herring. The OP (or a member here in disagreement with him, via a soundcloud link) presents the fact of this type of "electronic music" that typically suffers from the quantized, overtly repetitive, replication of EZ tropes and conformity as much as the stiffest pop music. And many people think of this incredibly narrow band of activity as the _definition of_ 'electronic music' (ahistorically), as a side product of the tech, in addition to.

But the main message is technology making people lazy, again I think that it draws a type of person in that may have never decided to "produce" music, simply because of the accessibility. Copy/paste... literally direct copies of sections rather than play it twice and get this bit of interest in via the human factor, if not a person's reconsideration of their part in doing the subsequent repeats. Or even paste it and then tweak it to get something fresh. Nah, get it done.*

And this, inescapable really that the very notion of producing, *productivity figures in - in a hurry to have a product - very much is a lazy (and entitled) way to be.

I tend towards a certain quality of laziness, I've realized upon reflection but as to music I would never want to be that sort. Music is a wonder, and I think it's being shat upon more than ever. Along with the possibilities actually creative minds are availed of. Cuts both ways. But if anything, speaking for myself it creates more ways to work so I work more, the laziness of using Absynth or suchlike to create Ligeti-esque clouds vs real micropolyphony notwithstanding.

[toonertik]

i only left orion because the audio side was becoming more important and it was a bit naff for audio.
midi wise it was great.
for the beginner with less money, the included instruments where pretty damned good too


and as a "modular nerd" ill be honest, i never really clicked with reason.
used it through college because we had to, along with pro tools.
but have never used either in my personal works.

Have you tried Bitwig?

no. keep thinking about it, people say it would compliment my workflow. just never get time to put in to demoing it.

Next issue of Computer Music includes free copy of the 8_Track Bitwig.. I'ma gonna give it a drive... Particularly interested to see if I can use it's modulation thingies into VCV_Rack

[vurt]

i only left orion because the audio side was becoming more important and it was a bit naff for audio.
midi wise it was great.
for the beginner with less money, the included instruments where pretty damned good too


and as a "modular nerd" ill be honest, i never really clicked with reason.
used it through college because we had to, along with pro tools.
but have never used either in my personal works.

Have you tried Bitwig?

no. keep thinking about it, people say it would compliment my workflow. just never get time to put in to demoing it.

Next issue of Computer Music includes free copy of the 8_Track Bitwig.. I'ma gonna give it a drive... Particularly interested to see if I can use it's modulation thingies into VCV_Rack

sounds interesting
do you know if there are any other restrictions?
cant be the whole program just limited to 8 channels surely?

[toonertik]

sounds interesting
do you know if there are any other restrictions?
cant be the whole program just limited to 8 channels surely?

I don't know exactly but I think it is all there, just 8 tracks. Well, they will want to show off all it's tricks, I hope, in an limited 8track environment. Mag comes out tomorrow so if my newsagent is on the ball and together, I will know (yeah, you know newsagents.. sometimes they just put it on the shelf and, like Lazy DAW producers, get lazy and don't cycle up the hill to my place>> well all fools should live on the hill, so I was told).
Me not lazy.. google says, hey boyo read this>>
https://www.bitwig.com/en/8-track/featu ... rison.html

[vurt]

ooh i have to go in to town tomorrow, ill have a look if i can grab a copy.
thanks for the info

[THE INTRANCER]

ooh i have to go in to town tomorrow, ill have a look if i can grab a copy.
thanks for the info

You can download it right now, you don't need the CM magazine... for the 8 track version.
https://www.bitwig.com/en/8-track.html

[toonertik]

ooh i have to go in to town tomorrow, ill have a look if i can grab a copy.
thanks for the info

You can download it right now, you don't need the CM magazine... for the 8 track version.
https://www.bitwig.com/en/8-track.html

Yeah, I just seen the download link.. I am sure you used to have to have a serial_no that was not free... like from OEM.. maybe they changed it, like with Cubase_LE or Live_SE (or whatever that OEM version was)

[CrystalWizard]

I find it vastly easier to find great music, simply via Youtube than at any time in the past. But if it's about 'today's music', that's a bit of a red herring, I think.

Also, radio is a bit of a red herring. The OP (or a member here in disagreement with him, via a soundcloud link) presents the fact of this type of "electronic music" that typically suffers from the quantized, overtly repetitive, replication of EZ tropes and conformity as much as the stiffest pop music. And many people think of this incredibly narrow band of activity as the _definition of_ 'electronic music' (ahistorically), as a side product of the tech, in addition to.

But the main message is technology making people lazy, again I think that it draws a type of person in that may have never decided to "produce" music, simply because of the accessibility. Copy/paste... literally direct copies of sections rather than play it twice and get this bit of interest in via the human factor, if not a person's reconsideration of their part in doing the subsequent repeats. Or even paste it and then tweak it to get something fresh. Nah, get it done.*

And this, inescapable really that the very notion of producing, *productivity figures in - in a hurry to have a product - very much is a lazy (and entitled) way to be.

I tend towards a certain quality of laziness, I've realized upon reflection but as to music I would never want to be that sort. Music is a wonder, and I think it's being shat upon more than ever. Along with the possibilities actually creative minds are availed of. Cuts both ways. But if anything, speaking for myself it creates more ways to work so I work more, the laziness of using Absynth or suchlike to create Ligeti-esque clouds vs real micropolyphony notwithstanding.

Great post. Also the previous post by TJ Shredder.
As i just commented in another thread:all EDM is electronic music but Not all electronic music is EDM. It’s pathetic that so many people are unaware of this.
No todays DAWsis are not making people “lazy producers”, lack of artistic integrity is making “lazy producers.”

I’m kinda busy with stuff but i may have to try the 8ch Bitwig. It’s been recommended to me many times, also.

[Aleatoriac]

Funny how "lazy" inevitably means - in practice - "too difficult for me to exploit."

The answer is "No."

Any disagreement with my assessment here comes from the incoherent contra-causal "free will" delusion and ape retributive bloodlust almost all Humans suffer from. We are such a monumentally stupid species.

We have fundamental aversion and attraction states. We use logic (prefrontal cortex, and most often very poorly) to rationalize those states and anything we've done based on them. Any disagreement with this is incoherent.

It isn't that you're wrong. It's that your position is incoherent. Any and all of you.

Of course this applies to me as well. MWA HA HA HA

So open up those DAWs and jizz out a world full of noise. Signal is apophenia

[THE INTRANCER]

Yeah, I just seen the download link.. I am sure you used to have to have a serial_no that was not free... like from OEM.. maybe they changed it, like with Cubase_LE or Live_SE (or whatever that OEM version was)

Yeah... that page is quite deceptive, there's no mention of any serial required, for the 8 Track version. So maybe there is a serial code to unlock it so one can save their compositions, or it may just be a way to get you to buy it for a CM 'Special Discount' cost... more than likely, I dunno...It was given away with the German 'Beat Mag' in 2016, and can't see any reference to either.. truly free and unrestricted or payware.. I guess, the only way to find out is either wait till someone provides that info first or go and pick up the magazine one's self and read what it has to say then. Being as limited as it is, one can probably save their tracks with it...but for the rest of us who already have commercial DAWs... it's probably going to be like other free software sequencers out there they don't use much or at all.

There is this though..

https://beta.photobucket.com/u/johnarno ... 15a973b705

[toonertik]

Yeah... that page is quite deceptive, there's no mention of any serial required, for the 8 Track version. So maybe there is a serial code to unlock it so one can save their compositions, or it may just be a way to get you to buy it for a CM 'Special Discount' cost... more than likely, I dunno...It was given away with the German 'Beat Mag' in 2016, and can't see any reference to either.. truly free and unrestricted or payware.. I guess, the only way to find out is either wait till someone provides that info first or go and pick up the magazine one's self and read what it has to say then. Being as limited as it is, one can probably save their tracks with it...but for the rest of us who already have commercial DAWs... it's probably going to be like other free software sequencers out there they don't use much or at all.

I will know tomorrow when I get my monthly cycle reminder (need the monthly cycle to keep level with the gals ) I can only imagine from past experience with CM that they include a serial_no... From CM I have had Focusrite's Red2/3_FULL... a light Giest, IK Black and White and other GAS fulfilling things.
For sure I have my main DAWs but it's also good to have some understanding of the competition.. also, some have particular tricks up their sleeves worth keeping in the growing tool_box!!!!

[vurt]

Funny how "lazy" inevitably means - in practice - "too difficult for me to exploit."

The answer is "No."

Any disagreement with my assessment here comes from the incoherent contra-causal "free will" delusion and ape retributive bloodlust almost all Humans suffer from. We are such a monumentally stupid species.

We have fundamental aversion and attraction states. We use logic (prefrontal cortex, and most often very poorly) to rationalize those states and anything we've done based on them. Any disagreement with this is incoherent.

It isn't that you're wrong. It's that your position is incoherent. Any and all of you.

Of course this applies to me as well. MWA HA HA HA

So open up those DAWs and jizz out a world full of noise. Signal is apophenia

not the first time ive been called incoherent.