2CAudio Precedence | 1.5 | Move Out Of Flatland. Take Precedence.

[Andrew Souter]

In the meantime a last example for some time (sorry, i was too bored maybe).
4 instances (2 violin and 2 cello) dry then the same again, each with a Precedence and Breeze 2 (a small custom Chamber A preset) as insert.
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/p ... reeze-2-x4

it is quite literally like the marketing says "move out of flatland"!

[experimental.crow]

re the release: as per usual as we accomplish one goal we end up in "feature creep" and can't resist the temptation to do other related (or not) goals.... We were mostly done with what we said we would do by January, but we added additional goals that seemed obtainable, and are obtainable, but took/take extra time. They are worth the time/effort though. A couple more weeks most likely..

my favorite type of creep ...

[Keith99]

When is this coming out? I am not normally one to gripe but when I bought Perception I understood the the new release would be very soon and that was back in mid-january . At least we need the manual so we can work out what things on the plugin do. thanks.

[Andrew Souter]

...as soon as possible. We were done with initial goals in January, but we added additional goals, and these are still being completed.

Regarding a manual for the current 1.0.0 features, I've asked previously, what is not clear? I am happy to explain here. What control/parameter do you not understand?

The initial notes read:

Distance and Angle
These are the main parameters. This is what is is all about. Everything else is in service to this. Their function is obvious.

Input Modes:
1: Direct Input: just use the stereo input exactly as it comes into the plugin
2: Mono-channel selection: select Left or Right input channel and use it to feed BOTH left AND right channels in the plug, creating a mono input signal. This is useful for sample libraries that have too much room baked-in, to allow them to be repositioned more effectively.
3) Mid-Side input width collapse/expand: a mid-side process to collapse or expand input: good for synth pads, complex ensemble source sounds such as choirs or full string sections, complex stereo sources like Kaleidoscope, sound-FX, etc. Normally best avoided on solo instrument sample libraries that have been stereo miced.

It is usually better to use the mono inputs in this case and choose either L or R as the input signal since collapsing stereo mics usually creates comb filtering.

Deltas:
Control the relative balance of how much gain, freq, and time constants change depending on position. These should generally be set to fixed values for a project for many instances and Distance and Angle should change. The default values are a good starting point and work well for almost everything. Several genre specific example templates are provided as well.

Width:
Think of this as something like the width between two stereo microphones. The default value gives good results in almost all cases. You can get wider or narrower if desired. If Width is 0.0, you will collapse functionality to gain-only panning -- still with some distance cues however and this would be perfectly 100% safe for electronic music bass sounds for example if mono base is needed -- really even 50% or higher is normally fine for electronic music bass. Large width will allow wider bass. Use your ears. For large ensemble mixes such as orchestral/scoring work, you might want to pick a width setting and retain it for all instruments, or at least sections of instruments and let Distance and Angle do their magic. But maybe not -- there are no rules really.

Modulation Depth/Rate/Enable:
Should be obvious. Modulation should be subtle in most cases, as it is in the real world, but it is possible to abuse it a little as I show in a few FX presets. Precedence is concerned mostly with ultra-realism though much more than crazy special FX. That is what we have Kaliedoscope (and B2) for.
The modulation should really be felt more than heard here. It will feel as if you are in the room with live performers instead of listening do static/dead samples. It's pretty magical IMHO.

Randomize Dice:
Variation Randomize: (Right Dice): Retains the same general position, but generates a new variation including variations to the exact width profile. This is something like changing small physical details in a chaotic system such as exact microphone position, directivity of the source sound, etc.
Position Randomize: (Left Dice): Randomizes the position completely. Shift-click will randomize by 10% of the current position for smaller randomization.

What remains unclear beyond that? What would you like additional info about?

[Andrew Souter]

...basically in the past few months, we have made something like a 2.0 version already... but it will be a free update to existing customers, so we will likely call it 1.5. Given the amount of changes and enhancements it required/requires a little extra time. It will be worth the wait... The manual will thoroughly document this version.

[Ploki]

thanks for the update!

[jens]

...basically in the past few months, we have made something like a 2.0 version already... but it will be a free update to existing customers, so we will likely call it 1.5. Given the amount of changes and enhancements it required/requires a little extra time. It will be worth the wait... The manual will thoroughly document this version.

If you haven't yet added this, please please please make at least Angle automatable. The lack of this really is a complete showstopper at times.

[plexuss]

...basically in the past few months, we have made something like a 2.0 version already... but it will be a free update to existing customers, so we will likely call it 1.5. Given the amount of changes and enhancements it required/requires a little extra time. It will be worth the wait... The manual will thoroughly document this version.

If you haven't yet added this, please please please make at least Angle automatable. The lack of this really is a complete showstopper at times.

All plugin parameters should be automatable - not necessarily to do sweeps of parameters but to change the value of them during the track.

[jens]

That's another thing. Would be nice, of course.

But Precedence is supposed to replace the pan of its host and to be used on every track, so the lack of the possibility to automate Angle means we are supposed to give up automating pan altogether in order to use Precedence. Just let that sink in for a minute.

[Sampleconstruct]

For moving things around just use plugs like GRM Doppler, GRM Spaces or build your own stuff in MXXX, or use Sound Particles and all those apps and plugs designed for creating movement, 3D and doppler effects.

[experimental.crow]

That's another thing. Would be nice, of course.

But Precedence is supposed to replace the pan of its host and to be used on every track, so the lack of the possibility to automate Angle means we are supposed to give up automating pan altogether in order to use Precedence. Just let that sink in for a minute.

i don't really see it that way ...
precedence seems designed to construct a virtual soundstage ,
and place your elements upon that stage .

i am not looking for the oboes to stand up , grab their chairs ,
and move away from the tympani , all while performing ...

i have used precedence to augment my DAWs panning , in that
i have placed an element with precedence , and then automated
the panning of that channel w/ the DAWs panning control while
leaving the precedence placement untouched . the results range from subtle ,
to striking , depending on the material , and amount of movement ...

[Sampleconstruct]

i am not looking for the oboes to stand up , grab their chairs ,
and move away from the tympani , all while performing ...

[Andrew Souter]

...this is discussed earlier In the thread.

Not going to happen in the next update. Changes to Angle and Distance require recomputing the entire Precedence alg. When using P-Link it also results in recompthing the entire Breeze alg-parameter-space. Now let that sink in for a moment.

It is perhaps helpful to think of multi impulse response systems like MIR where each impulse response in the set is a different position in the sampled space. Precedence and the combination of Precednce and Breeze generate an infinite number of such impulse responses algorithmically (but they are not static impulse responses, it is done algorithmicly in a time varying manner ie there is modulation, yet the complexity and density approaches IR samples of real spaces). This metaphor is helpful in that updating Precedence and Breeze in real-time would basically be something like having to synthesize a new several second impulse response every sample. It would blow up your computer.

Now consider we want to be able to do this for 100 or more tracks simultaneously. Ain’t gonna happen.

Precedence and P+B are positioning tools, not motion FX tools. Positioning needs are universal. Every tracks needs some kind of positioning. How many tracks in your mix do you actually spend applying pan automation to as a % of your total tracks? Less than 10% on average? It is mostly a special FX need IMHO.

As such, and given the fact that it will require tons more CPU usage and/or a different approach, we will explore motion FX in a separate product if we ever explore such things. It is a different need than the primary use of Precedence.

Non-smooth automation may be possible. Ie to allow you change things in the track while there are no active audio segments in effort to minimize track counts. But then again since we suspend processing when there is no input you could just use multiple tracks for that instead.

[plexuss]

It's good usability to allow the user control and freedom, and to implement features that are ubiquitous. Since parameter automation is ubiquitous and useful for things other than value sweeps, leaving it out is a negative hit to usability. Forcing the user to create new tracks to work around something that "should" be implemented (since most other plugins use it) is also a negative hit to usability. That's fine as long as you accep the risks, which include:

- annoying users because an expected feature is not implemented
- reduces sales because of the same
- reduced use of the tool because of lack of expected features

Implementing automation essentially eliminates these risks, but exposes only one that I can think of:

- annoying users who expect automation to work seamlessly

However this is easy to mitigate by stating on the product information "Sweeped automation of parameters ____ and _____ will not work smoothly or at all due to the computation time needed when changing values. Use automation only to change the state of the plugin, like changing a preset", or the like.

[jens]

For moving things around just use plugs like GRM Doppler, GRM Spaces or build your own stuff in MXXX, or use Sound Particles and all those apps and plugs designed for creating movement, 3D and doppler effects.

I have no interest in "creating movement"... all you computer musos appear think in ways that have no significance for someone who's doing more conventional music.

Why would automating pan equal "creating movement, 3D and doppler effects"?

I need pan automation for far more conservative purposes.