Need Help With Trance Project (CD Completed)

[Mushy Mushy]

Well, here's the deal. I already said it up with Neutron EQ. It works relatively well. It's not perfect. I can hear a slight bit of volume drop in the music but it's not drastic. I can't imagine Pro MB being that much better. It's still a compressor. So there is still going to be a drop in volume. There's supposed to be. So rather than go through all that again, I'm just going to leave well enough alone. I'm sure when I post the track, with either the EQ or Pro MB, somebody is going to comment "I can hear pumping." So why kill myself over it? I'm content with the way it sounds and that's all that matters.

Neutron almost certainly can do what you want, I was only pushing Pro-MB because you wanted a release control. If you have it set up with Neutron and want to minimise pumping, reduce the gain* further and/or the Q.

*Yes, I know it's negative gain.

[wagtunes]

Well, here's the deal. I already said it up with Neutron EQ. It works relatively well. It's not perfect. I can hear a slight bit of volume drop in the music but it's not drastic. I can't imagine Pro MB being that much better. It's still a compressor. So there is still going to be a drop in volume. There's supposed to be. So rather than go through all that again, I'm just going to leave well enough alone. I'm sure when I post the track, with either the EQ or Pro MB, somebody is going to comment "I can hear pumping." So why kill myself over it? I'm content with the way it sounds and that's all that matters.

Neutron almost certainly can do what you want, I was only pushing Pro-MB because you wanted a release control. If you have it set up with Neutron and want to minimise pumping, reduce the gain* further and/or the Q.

*Yes, I know it's negative gain.

When I post the track for all the experts here, we'll see how many problems there are. I'm shooting for at least less than a hundred.

We'll see.

[Mushy Mushy]

It’s your first attempt, don’t be too hard on yourself. Plus you only started listening to this stuff 4.5 minutes ago.

[vurt]

[I'm content with the way it sounds and that's all that matters.

hell to the yes!

now you're getting it.

[andymcbain]

No you're not talking out of your arse (don't be a wise ass) and yes, I'm sure it's more than capable of doing what I need, but I was specifically told to stay away from compressors for ducking the music under the vocals, so that's what I did. Not knowing what I'm doing (obviously) I can only do what people tell me to do.

Erm, I wasn’t trying to be a wise ass at all. I was being self deprecating.

Anyway, I would disagree with the advice you’ve been given. These things aren’t black and white. A multiband compressor set up correctly may sound fine. A dynamic EQ set up badly may sound awful.

If you can’t get the result you want with Neutron then try another tool. If you already own Pro-MB then maybe try that first.

If you want a more flexible dynamic EQ for free then try TDR Nova.

And the afformentioned Trackspacer is definitely worth a look.

[wagtunes]

It’s your first attempt, don’t be too hard on yourself. Plus you only started listening to this stuff 4.5 minutes ago.

Well, it's a little more than 4.5 minutes ago. I've so far listened to 163 tracks in various sub genres. The only rule I've figured out so far is there are no rules. But, and this is the important thing, I have decided FINALLY what direction this CD is going in. I'm sure it will have more than a few people scratching their heads.

[andymcbain]

[I'm content with the way it sounds and that's all that matters.

hell to the yes!

now you're getting it.

+1 ... if it sounds right to you then it is right

[recursive one]

Wags, I think this thread will be more useful for you if instead of asking what specific plugin you should use and how exactly you should set it up you concentrate on what effect you want to acheive. If I unserstand this right, in this specific situation you want to make room for vocals by ducking specific frequencies in other instruments (e.g. the lead or pad). There is more than one way to do this, you may use a multiband compressor or a dynamic equalizer, you may even do this without any sidechaining at all - just close the filter on your lead when the vocal kicks in, or replace the lead in this section with a thinner sounding one or remove the lead at all. Actually I think the arrangement goes first, if you need to "make room" for the vocal this may mean that the arrangement is too crowded and has some unnecessary elements.

[wagtunes]

Wags, I think this thread will be more useful for you if instead of asking what specific plugin you should use and how exactly you should set it up you concentrate on what effect you want to acheive. If I unserstand this right, in this specific situation you want to make room for vocals by ducking specific frequencies in other instruments (e.g. the lead or pad). There is more than one way to do this, you may use a multiband compressor or a dynamic equalizer, you may even do this without any sidechaining at all - just close the filter on your lead when the vocal kicks in, or replace the lead in this section with a thinner sounding one or remove the lead at all. Actually I think the arrangement goes first, if you need to "make room" for the vocal this may mean that the arrangement is too crowded and has some unnecessary elements.

The part of the arrangement where the vocal comes in has only a kick, a bass and a pad. That's it. It's the pad that simply needs to come down in volume a bit. I was going to do this with simple volume automation but somebody said, no, don't do that. It's a pain in the ass. Instead use a dynamic EQ. That way it will happen automatically and you won't have to go riding the volume fader through the whole vocal part.

Makes sense, that's what I did, and I'm fine with it.

This whole "aftermath crap" is simply because this person told me to control the release on the EQ so you don't get a severe pumping effect. Except dynamic EQs don't have release. So I was told to do something I can't do.

Otherwise, there's no problem here. I achieved the effect I was looking for and I'm now moving on.

[Mushy Mushy]

Man if that’s a pain in the arse one of my projects would turn you full on gay. Every single one of the ~80 tracks has intricate automation all the way through.

[andymcbain]

This whole "aftermath crap" is simply because this person told me to control the release on the EQ so you don't get a severe pumping effect. Except dynamic EQs don't have release. So I was told to do something I can't do.

Otherwise, there's no problem here. I achieved the effect I was looking for and I'm now moving on.

Just to clarify, most dynamic EQs that I know of do have a release control. For whatever reason, the one included with Neutron doesn't, which seems a bit baffling to me given how deep Neutron is... but anyway. I apologise for any unnecessary confusion caused.

Good luck with your project.

[vurt]

yeah, dismissing automation if anything sounds lazy

without hearing the specific sounds though it's hard to comment but trance to me suggests female vocals, therefore higher in pitch. a pad is generally used to flesh of the space between a lead and bass.
so usually just cutting out the lower part of the vox can work as long as you don't cut to far.

there are many ways to achieve the same goal.

[wagtunes]

yeah, dismissing automation if anything sounds lazy

without hearing the specific sounds though it's hard to comment but trance to me suggests female vocals, therefore higher in pitch. a pad is generally used to flesh of the space between a lead and bass.
so usually just cutting out the lower part of the vox can work as long as you don't cut to far.

there are many ways to achieve the same goal.

The problem is, it's Vocaloid, so there's only so much there to begin with. But yeah, I've done that trick with lots of Vocaloid vocals and it works great for getting the vocal "heard" but the resulting quality is, well, let's just say it leaves a lot to be desired.

As for the 80 tracks comment above, I'm not even sure how the hell somebody squeezes that many tracks into a project unless they're using synths that take up almost no CPU. I'm at around 25 tracks and am already pushing about 70%. I'll be lucky if I can make it to 40 tracks let alone 80. Must have one hell of a PC because I'm running an I7 with 16 GIG RAM on an SSD drive.

So hell if I know how he manages that.

[Mushy Mushy]

As for the 80 tracks comment above, I'm not even sure how the hell somebody squeezes that many tracks into a project unless they're using synths that take up almost no CPU. I'm at around 25 tracks and am already pushing about 70%. I'll be lucky if I can make it to 40 tracks let alone 80. Must have one hell of a PC because I'm running an I7 with 16 GIG RAM on an SSD drive.

So hell if I know how he manages that.

All running on a MS Surface 2017. It's only hovering around 70% at the moment so haven't needed to freeze too many so far. That said some tracks consist of only one sound once throughout the track. If I start pushing the CPU I'll render them out and/or dump then into a multi-out sampler.

[vurt]

some tracks will be very intermittent
ie the odd swoosh here n there
then there's freezing
it all adds up.

years of that is one reason i love the freedom now of just plugging in and pressing record and done!