The Wagtunes Corner

[wagtunes]

But your comments about the drums are noted.

No point "noting" my comments when you've evidently not understood them.

I understood them. You thought they ruined the track. I think you were pretty clear about that.

[wagtunes]

hey wags, check the new guitar forum...
peter from ik teasing some sort of "brian may" type sounds business thing

There's a guitar forum?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

But your comments about the drums are noted.

No point "noting" my comments when you've evidently not understood them.

I understood them. You thought they ruined the track. I think you were pretty clear about that.

It was your previous comment that demonstrated you didn't understand why I had said what I had said. Anyway, no problem. Clearly, you seem to be just making demo mock-ups for other bands to take on, so probably not worth the extra care

[wagtunes]

But your comments about the drums are noted.

No point "noting" my comments when you've evidently not understood them.

I understood them. You thought they ruined the track. I think you were pretty clear about that.

It was your previous comment that demonstrated you didn't understand why I had said what I had said. Anyway, no problem. Clearly, you seem to be just making demo mock-ups for other bands to take on, so probably not worth the extra care

This is exactly what you said.

The bad news is both 'Chicago Overcoat' and 'City Juice' are almost unlistenable due to the drums, which are just falling all over the place and dragging the rest of the performance with them

The drums make the songs unlistenable because they are, as you say, "falling all over the place." I actually understand what you mean by that phrase. There is a lot of syncopation and fills. It isn't even close to a straight beat. Yes, I know. I did that on purpose. I personally like those drums parts. They aren't boring. Your taste obviously doesn't like what I did, and that's fine. Not everybody is going to like every part of every thing I do. I'm sure real trumpet and trombone players would probably find a lot to pick on with my brass parts. Same with the sax. Same with the piano. Trust me, if we played this song for enough musicians covering every instrument that is in the song, by the end of the day, the song would have been totally ripped to pieces. I can guarantee it.

Understanding that, unless it's something that is clearly a "mistake" such as a drum hit that is clearly a miss hit or an EQ that has 5K screaming in somebody's ears, or a piano chord that clearly has a klunker note (I try to edit them all out but may miss one) when I put out a performance, it's something that I am pleased with. I've worked too hard to get to where I am now to just put junk out on the Internet. In fact, I'd like to take down a lot of the crap I've posted over the years. But these songs? I am quite proud of them.

Like mama says, can't please everybody.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Yup! You keep repeating the same thing, when you could have just asked me to clarify. But I'm out. Was much better when I maintained a safe distance

[wagtunes]

Yup! You keep repeating the same thing, when you could have just asked me to clarify. But I'm out. Was much better when I maintained a safe distance

Well I'm sorry you get upset so easily. I thought we were having a calm, rational conversation. So you're saying I didn't understand you correctly. Okay. I thought it was quite clear but I guess not.

As for you wanting to keep a safe distance, that's up to you. I didn't insult you and I said nothing offensive. But if you're that easily annoyed then yes, maybe it's best we don't speak to each other.

I hope everybody else reading this can see that I did or said nothing wrong.

[donkey tugger]

On 'Chicago Overcoat' (great brass, got a bit of a Bazza Manilow type of feel) the drums are mostly ok, except in the choruses where something is going quite badly awry in terms of timing. It's not syncopation, just sounds like a midi clip has been slightly nudged to the wrong place or something to me. It goes back to being in time later, it's just those sections.

[wagtunes]

On 'Chicago Overcoat' (great brass, got a bit of a Bazza Manilow type of feel) the drums are mostly ok, except in the choruses where something is going quite badly awry in terms of timing. It's not syncopation, just sounds like a midi clip has been slightly nudged to the wrong place or something to me. It goes back to being in time later, it's just those sections.

Well, I can go back and watch the MIDI track as it's playing but I assure you whatever you're hearing, when I played it back, I was fine with it. If you can give me the exact minute and second it will save me some time searching for it.

[donkey tugger]

On 'Chicago Overcoat' (great brass, got a bit of a Bazza Manilow type of feel) the drums are mostly ok, except in the choruses where something is going quite badly awry in terms of timing. It's not syncopation, just sounds like a midi clip has been slightly nudged to the wrong place or something to me. It goes back to being in time later, it's just those sections.

Well, I can go back and watch the MIDI track as it's playing but I assure you whatever you're hearing, when I played it back, I was fine with it. If you can give me the exact minute and second it will save me some time searching for it.

As an example, the bit from 51 seconds until it resolves back to the verse - something sounds awry. Not a loose feel, but as if the drummer has lost the beat and is struggling to get back in time with the rest of the band..who are by then glowering at him..

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

On 'Chicago Overcoat' (great brass, got a bit of a Bazza Manilow type of feel) the drums are mostly ok, except in the choruses where something is going quite badly awry in terms of timing. It's not syncopation, just sounds like a midi clip has been slightly nudged to the wrong place or something to me. It goes back to being in time later, it's just those sections.

Well, I can go back and watch the MIDI track as it's playing but I assure you whatever you're hearing, when I played it back, I was fine with it. If you can give me the exact minute and second it will save me some time searching for it.

As an example, the bit from 51 seconds until it resolves back to the verse - something sounds awry. Not a loose feel, but as if the drummer has lost the beat and is struggling to get back in time with the rest of the band..who are by then glowering at him..

Yup! When i first heard it it sounded like the record had skipped. Not helped by the fact that it knocks out any chance of providing stability to the bass. Then, ultimately, the vocal timing suffers.

[wagtunes]

On 'Chicago Overcoat' (great brass, got a bit of a Bazza Manilow type of feel) the drums are mostly ok, except in the choruses where something is going quite badly awry in terms of timing. It's not syncopation, just sounds like a midi clip has been slightly nudged to the wrong place or something to me. It goes back to being in time later, it's just those sections.

Well, I can go back and watch the MIDI track as it's playing but I assure you whatever you're hearing, when I played it back, I was fine with it. If you can give me the exact minute and second it will save me some time searching for it.

As an example, the bit from 51 seconds until it resolves back to the verse - something sounds awry. Not a loose feel, but as if the drummer has lost the beat and is struggling to get back in time with the rest of the band..who are by then glowering at him..

Okay, here's what's going on MIDI wise from 51 seconds on.

First off, the song is gridded in 8th notes. So 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and. There are a lot of hits on the "ands" which is ultimately what you don't like.

But back to the MIDI. I'll just list all the "and" hits or we'll be here all day.

52 seconds - Kick on 2 and.
52 plus - Snare on 3 and.
53 seconds - Snare on 1 and, 3 and.
54 seconds - Snare on 1 and, 3 and
57 seconds - Kick on 2 and, Snare on 3 and.
58 seconds - Kick on 3 and.
1 minute - Kick on 2 and, 3 and.
1:01 - Kick on 2 and, Snare on 3 and.

These off beats (there are a lot of them) continue to about 1:12

No, they're not MIDI notes that got shifted out of whack. That's how I played the part. I get that it's a lot of off hits and maybe for some it can be quite jarring, but listen to some Buddy Rich or just about any Jazz Drummer for that matter. They are all over the place.

So no, this was all done intentionally. Now, if the general consensus is that it doesn't work in the context of the song, that's cool. Like I said, I'm not going to please everybody. But I'm happy with the drum part. It's how I wanted it to sound. And yes, I just listened to it again. To some, I guess that's chaotic and out of whack. To me, it's funky.

Ultimately, I'm going to leave it as it is.

FWIW, there's going to be a lot more drumming like this as the CD progresses. So you might want to keep that in mind before you attempt to listen to anything else from it.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

listen to some Buddy Rich or just about any Jazz Drummer for that matter. They are all over the place.

They really aren't

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Yup! You keep repeating the same thing, when you could have just asked me to clarify. But I'm out. Was much better when I maintained a safe distance

Well I'm sorry you get upset so easily. I thought we were having a calm, rational conversation. So you're saying I didn't understand you correctly. Okay. I thought it was quite clear but I guess not.

As for you wanting to keep a safe distance, that's up to you. I didn't insult you and I said nothing offensive. But if you're that easily annoyed then yes, maybe it's best we don't speak to each other.

I hope everybody else reading this can see that I did or said nothing wrong.

Not upset, nor am I annoyed. Just not going to spend any time trying to get someone to see something they clearly have no interest in seeing.

There was no conversation here. I was trying to convey something, and rather than enquiring as to why I might have felt the way I did, you just kept coming back with standard responses trying to defend yourself from some perceived attack.

I hope everybody else reading this can see that I did or said nothing wrong.

Maybe you could put up a poll

[thecontrolcentre]

listen to some Buddy Rich or just about any Jazz Drummer for that matter. They are all over the place.

[wagtunes]

Okay, not going down this road anymore. I'm sick of it. I recorded a simplified drum part and will be posting it shortly. Otherwise I can see where this thread is going and I can't do it anymore.

You win.