Repro-1/Hive: Effects on/off and Mod Matrix midi learn missing

[mi-os]

How can i enable/disable each fx and set mod matrix (aka 'perform') destinations via MIDI in Repro-1?

ps Hive seems also affected

[EvilDragon]

You can't.

[mi-os]

i'm building a custom synth controller which should work stand-alone (to avoid a mouse/computer monitor use)

[EvilDragon]

Good luck.

[Urs]

Well, individual FX on/off is something we have on our radar. But as it sits inside of the module that also controls the FX order, it isn't an easy job to add that extension (needs a lot of hacking and testing).

Modulation targets OTOH is a dfferent story, i.e. probably not happening. They are very volatile parameters. As there's often several hundreds of targets in our products, they can't be accessed by MIDI easily. Also, due to the nature of our software and our development process, we can not guarantee that the actual target parameter index stays constant over time. The order can change from build to build. We solve compatibility in our preset format through unique literal identifiers, but we can not make this happen for MIDI or automation. Which is why even if we could make those parameters accessible (we currently can't...), we would strongly recommend not to use them.

[mi-os]

Good luck.

Looks like i'll need some and/or u-he to the rescue

I'd like to support DIVA, Repro and Hive, but it looks like DIVA is the only one with full midi control.

[mi-os]

Well, individual FX on/off is something we have on our radar. But as it sits inside of the module that also controls the FX order, it isn't an easy job to add that extension (needs a lot of hacking and testing).

Ok, so for FX on/off there is some hope. Slot reordering would be nice to have, but not essential imo.

Modulation targets OTOH is a dfferent story, i.e. probably not happening. They are very volatile parameters. As there's often several hundreds of targets in our products, they can't be accessed by MIDI easily. Also, due to the nature of our software and our development process, we can not guarantee that the actual target parameter index stays constant over time. The order can change from build to build. We solve compatibility in our preset format through unique literal identifiers, but we can not make this happen for MIDI or automation. Which is why even if we could make those parameters accessible (we currently can't...), we would strongly recommend not to use them.

With 7bit midi you could control 128 targets per CC, thats aleady alot. If there were something like 100 targets you could use the CC value as identifier (fixed map) and there would be room for future updates with 28 more targets left.
How its been handled with presets sounds intresting, but i assume i cannot use it for my purposes, right?

[EvilDragon]

The problem is that mod targets are NOT a fixed map, it depends from build to build, hence are extremely unsuitable to any kind of external control.

[mi-os]

The problem is that mod targets are NOT a fixed map, it depends from build to build, hence are extremely unsuitable to any kind of external control.

Hmm, but you could have maps in the plugin which define these targets as constants per CC, or not? Also, Urs said there is a soluton for presets already. It's not like the synth changes it's architecture every build.
On the controller side i need to do it either way in order to display mod target names or other option names, because the plugin will not send these infos to the controller.

[mi-os]

What about NKS from NI? Could it be a viable solution? Can i use this protocol in my own controller at all?

[EvilDragon]

You would have to talk to NI about that, but it still wouldn't help, because mod matrix target controls (dropdown menus) are NOT AUTOMATABLE in any u-he product, either via MIDI or host automation (which is what NKS uses). So, no, you cannot do this, and Urs has explained very well why.

It's not like the synth changes it's architecture every build.

Actually that can indeed happen, and does happen here and there. Not every build, but it does happen. Hence those parameters are "volatile" and unassignable. Live with it.

[mi-os]

You would have to talk to NI about that, but it still wouldn't help, because mod matrix target controls (dropdown menus) are NOT AUTOMATABLE in any u-he product, either via MIDI or host automation (which is what NKS uses). So, no, you cannot do this, and Urs has explained very well why.

Ok, then NKS wouldn't help either. I read mackie protocol has parameter/label feedback. I assumed NKS would be a step forward from those old protocols.

It's not like the synth changes it's architecture every build.

Actually that can indeed happen, and does happen here and there. Not every build, but it does happen. Hence those parameters are "volatile" and unassignable. Live with it.

Please don't get me wrong, i'm very thankful for everyones input here.

I may be not the best developer myself, but i really don't get what volatile means in this context. Params like 'Filter Freq' or 'OSC 1 Tune' are defined in the very beginning and will be there till the last build of the synth. Sure, there can be changes or some new params join in. But that is what maps or constants are for (imo). Please remember that the preset system already has a solution for this. Maybe you could explain the issue in more detail to me!?

Sure in the end i've to accept it like it is. That leads me back to DIVA where each param seems controllable, or not?

[mi-os]

Modulation targets OTOH is a dfferent story, i.e. probably not happening.

Any chance it will work in Repro-5?

[pdxindy]

Please remember that the preset system already has a solution for this. Maybe you could explain the issue in more detail to me!?

The explanation from Urs seems quite clear... but hey, I understand you want to do something and are looking for a way to do it...

[mi-os]

Please remember that the preset system already has a solution for this. Maybe you could explain the issue in more detail to me!?

The explanation from Urs seems quite clear... but hey, I understand you want to do something and are looking for a way to do it...

I reread the above posts serveral times and still don't get it. Maybe i'm an idiot

For Repro-1 for example you have 27 mods targets + off = 28 values per cc needed per matrix slot.

For example:

CC 100 is mapped to mod matrix slot 1 targets

possible values:
0 = off
1 = LFO Freq
2 = Midi Glide
3 = Midi Master Tune
4 = Filt Env Attack
and so on..

If in a new build 'Midi Glide' gets removed, it would be 2 = null and if you have a new target you add it the list index to 29 onwards. I really don't get why this would not work. If 7 bit is not sufficient use 14 bit or RPN/NRPN.