d16 Repeater thread

[Compyfox]

The thing is, the EP-34 (clones) do exactly that... "clone" (or model) the behavior of a real tape delay including all it's weaknesses (wobble, flutter, a specific tape sound - some tape machine clones can use different tapes - think GSi's GS-201 which I do prefer over Repeater if we talk classic tape delay, but I'd prefer Repeater for having more control).

REPEATER on the other hand only uses the "sound" of these machines and incorporates it into the delay circuit (which is as clean as it can get). Which is more or less emphasized with the "Analog" mode (which has a different feedback tone shaping behavior).


Again - versatility vs 1:1 accurate clones
You have to have the concept of this thing in mind, not seeing it as "one stop solution".

[sqigls]

Again, think I'll wait for the Valhalla Delay. At least Sean understands the meaning of the word - character.

[ATS]

Again, think I'll wait for the Valhalla Delay. At least Sean understands the meaning of the word - character.

what does it mean?

[sqigls]

It means, if you're gonna model an EP-3 or an RE-201, then you need to leave some grit in there... among other gripes

[soulone82]

To me it sounds great, but not 89 € great...not even 66 € great...

[Compyfox]

Again, think I'll wait for the Valhalla Delay. At least Sean understands the meaning of the word - character.

what does it mean?

It means, if you're gonna model an EP-3 or an RE-201, then you need to leave some grit in there... among other gripes

Oh right... so... this particular delay has no character, even with the following features offered (official routing chart as depicted in the manual)...

Repeater Signal Flow.PNG

Repeater Delay Line.PNG

What you consider "charater" is therefore not how the delay "works" (circuit/routing), but it's imperfections (yet again).

In other words:
- wow and flutter (German: Gleichlaufstörung, English: irregularities in the playback speed of analogue recordings), which covers modulating delay times due to the tape not running at the exact speed, and therefore micro pitch shifting as well.
- AC/DC noise (hum)
- hiss and ground noise (due to limitations of the media being used, or the internal "sound chips" being old and/or frequency/bitrate limited)


Apparently, the "machine modes" are just but a "fingerprint" of "unrealistic machines" (funny - no two devices of the same model/company sound the same unless we talk digital delay) and not the real deal...

Also apparently, Slate Digital and especially D16 Group don't know what they're doing, don't know what a "character" device is (this would count to U-HE's SATIN as well then, which is a "tape machine sandbox" concept), and that thing is also way too overpriced for what you get. [/sarcasm]

You can't make it right for everyone I guess.



SIDENOTE:
I recently ran REPEATER side by side with GSi's GS-201. I do prefer the latter for the simple setup, tape head positions incl easier "speed up/down" effects, but the former for a slightly more cleaner sound. So what is it - it's down to "character", or "features/usability"?

To me it sounds great, but not 89 € great...not even 66 € great...

So I take it, plugins with a lot of features like this these days have to cost between 20-50bucks to be great?


Honestly, I'd like to spark this discussion...

What's a bit confusing indeed, is that some shops list this plugin as 150USD with an "introduction" of 99USD. While both Slate Digital and D16 lists the plugin for 89EUR (also 99USD - VAT included). Both companies do offer "loyalty discounts" this time.

Now let's take a look around at the competition (regular price, no sale deals):
- UAD Galaxy Tape Echo (Roland Space Echo) or EP-34 Tape Echo (Echoplex) for 199EUR each, plus the price of an UAD card!
- SoundToys Echoboy is 199USD (plus VAT)
- Replica XT (which does offer more post-modulation but no other "machine" type sounds) is 99EUR
- UVI Relayer is 129EUR + VAT
- PSP 85 Delay is 149USD + VAT


What else is "teh sh*t" recently?

Oh yeah...
- PSP 608MD is also 149USD + VAT
- PSP Echo is 99USD + VAT
- Hyakken HY-DELAY2 (no "machine sounds, but 8 delay types!) - 40USD
- ValhallaDSP FreqEcho - freeware


All of the companies, except Hyakken, do offer regular sales as well. So you can net a plugin with at least 25% discount every once in a while.


So... is the price trend in a downwards motion?
Do developers have to adjust to "the trend"?
Does it mean, the less features it has ("model tones" not included in this equation), the less the tool in question should cost?


I'm not saying that I'm happy with 99USD (with or without VAT), or whether or not I need another delay (especially if you're covered in that area already), but come on... a 20% discount bar minimum as loyal customer? This nets this plugin well in the range of the competition.

Then again, nobody is forced to buy the delay in question. There are(!) plenty of alternatives. ValhallaDSP is mentioned several times, though apparently that thing is still in "concept state" it seems (I've seen Tweets about it, but nothing of detail). Then there is PSP with the classic oriented, stereo/dual PSP ECHO, and then there is the newcomer Hyakken HY-DELAY2 with it's "multi circuit" concept. Not to mention still excellent freeware like TAL, Variety of Sound, Hyakken, ...




What I don't get with this discussion is, how can one plugin be "priced right", or having "character", while another one has neither of that?

Guess it's all subjective...

[sqigls]

do you ever get laid dude?

[Compyfox]

Oh... new insult... KVR is getting creative lately.

[sqigls]

question, Compy ol' son. It was a question.
tough crowd
guess i'll take this one to the "The answer is NO!, you got the question" thread.

[Compyfox]

How about "this is none of your business"?! Would that be acceptable?
I take it as a "no", as I obviously don't accept "your" opinion on the plugin, right?

Technically, it's "your business" and I shouldn't care. But hey, you posted an/your opinion on KVR, opinions spark discussions, discussion can go all the wrong routes. So yeah...



Would still like to hear your definition of "character", as it's just a made up (and now widespread) term like "warmth", "color", "width", "coldness", "fluffiness" (the most ridiculous term I've read so far) and what have you. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

YMMV of course.

[sqigls]

there's a line in the movie Pulp Fiction. Where the fixer "The Wolf", says to his girlfriend "you ARE a character, but that doesn't mean you HAVE character".

[Compyfox]

Right...
Doesn't answer the Q though - but I guess... "opinions".


You still take out that delay for breakfast though?
[/movie moment]

[rod_zero]

NI probably will have is annual 50% black friday sale so you can get replika xt for 50.

great deal, one of the best delays around.

[soulone82]

So glad I don´t have to read his bullshit!

Whenever he posts something all I see is this: This post was made by Compyfox who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

[Compyfox]

So glad I don´t have to read his bullshit!

Whenever he posts something all I see is this: This post was made by Compyfox who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Ah if only this would be mutual... but you know... I'm not afraid to go into an argument and call out people (like I did with the various threads on metering tools, where some individuals from in here were also part of this)... and you also still miss out on helpful tips and tutorials (like with the "Musiclab" thread in instruments from last week)

Oh wait... you won't even read this. Nevermind then...