More copy protection...

[Miles1981]

I think piracy has tanked over the years because the latest generation is a different sort (cell phones, social media).

Computer science in general. There are less and less people that can understand how a computer works, and even less that can configure them.

[random_id]

That said, we can track quite a few sales to anti-piracy measures. The time invested was well spent.

I used to get spikes in web traffic when a crack was released. It would be at least 10-20x the normal traffic, for about 2 - 3 days. Of course, only an infinitesimal amount of people that use cracks may buy, but I will spend a day or two tinkering with copy protection if it means I will convert a small percentage of cracks into legitimate sales.

Most people that have cracks aren't serious musicians, producers, mixers, etc. They just like collecting all of the cracks. They spend more time collecting than using any of the software they have. I am more concerned about getting people hooked on my plugins, so when a crack does fail, they have to purchase the real thing. Yes, just like drugs - I am a plugin pusher.

[Vertion]

For me it's more of a psychological thing. Being cracked sucks - very depressing.

Now that I completely understand. I don't like people messing with my code. It's too bad one cannot legitimately trojan any attempts at reversing. If you go heavy on the obfuscation (spaghetti) you can give anyone trying to reverse engineer a heck of a time and slow them down to snail speed. If you can't stop them, make it annoying for them.. a labyrinth. You could also put messages at various points in the binary to tell them what you think of them (unused reference strings)... make various references to their mother, etc.

Also, if you release a new version/update (code rearranged) that requires a new serial each time like once a week. I think that it would keep crackers on their toes trying to keep up with each release, and any of their public releases pretty much invalid.

[Urs]

I used to get spikes in web traffic when a crack was released.

hehehe, talking about web traffic... to this day, in its 6th or 7th year, each 17th of a month is ACE day. Sales of ACE spike on any 17th or 18th (depending on timezone). Based on the most simple idea I've ever come up with, the copy protection of ACE performs an additional serial check on each 17th of any month. It displays a message on the screen alongside a link to our shop. Some warez user clicks that link, browser opens, a few of them turn into legit users.

It has gone down in recent years, but it's still there - even despite the fact that I've posted about this several times, including fancy sales graphs and so on.

[Urs]

Also, if you release a new version/update (code rearranged) that requires a new serial each time like once a week. I think that it would keep crackers on their toes trying to keep up with each release, and any of their public releases pretty much invalid.

Certainly - but it would create a nuisance for the legit customers too. My biggest concern with copy protection is, it needs to be simple for our customers. At most it needs to be less tedious than finding a working crack. Everything else punishes legit users.

- U

[FabienTDR]

Based on the most simple idea I've ever come up with, the copy protection of ACE performs an additional serial check on each 17th of any month. It displays a message on the screen alongside a link to our shop. Some warez user clicks that link, browser opens, a few of them turn into legit users.

A very nice idea imho.

Unique time bombs triggering friendly dialogs aren't exactly easy to find and mute in the binary. Given humorous or emotional winks toward the official product, including an attractive "call to action", I see much greater potential for converts (vs repressive ideas).

A simple smile or emotion can make the difference imho. Pirates can change their mind, I think that even the simplest communicative moves can help.

"Ok, you've no been using this software for a while, now could be the right time to run into a legit license holder! We're offering amnesty and exclusive 50% discount, just follow the link below".

IMHO, and piracy is a problem that can also be addressed as a social engineering problem, rather than a purely technical one.

[Vertion]

hehehe, talking about web traffic... to this day, in its 6th or 7th year, each 17th of a month is ACE day. Sales of ACE spike on any 17th or 18th (depending on timezone). Based on the most simple idea I've ever come up with, the copy protection of ACE performs an additional serial check on each 17th of any month. It displays a message on the screen alongside a link to our shop. Some warez user clicks that link, browser opens, a few of them turn into legit users.

Indeed, it does bring up an idea. You could go the way of the US Govt and control all sides of the story. Just a random idea, but what if you controlled the cracks as well (but only to your own products so it's legit), and it can becomes like a hand and glove approach. You can control every move of the situation to guide them to buy. You could simply justify it as another product feature..say call it 'demo extension utility' on paper to legitimize it. A kind of carrot-on-a-stick strategy.

[syntonica]

Also, if you release a new version/update (code rearranged) that requires a new serial each time like once a week. I think that it would keep crackers on their toes trying to keep up with each release, and any of their public releases pretty much invalid.

Certainly - but it would create a nuisance for the legit customers too. My biggest concern with copy protection is, it needs to be simple for our customers. At most it needs to be less tedious than finding a working crack. Everything else punishes legit users.

- U

I remember, back in my Atari days, I was playing some game and right in the middle, the screen blacked out and up popped a red skull and crossbones with words to the effect of, Arrrr! Caught ye, pirate!

Considering I had just thrown down $50 for this game, I was pretty pissed! I think I ended up taking it back and demanding my money back.

The moral of this story is, if one is going to be accusing users of piracy, one had better be darn sure that one is right. If your copy protection is making your legitimate customers swear, are you losing more money from pirates who probably won't buy anyway, or are you losing more legit customers?

I'm sure it's all been said before here, but as an end user, I don't mind sticking in a serial number and watermarking my copy of the software. But if I have to have a dongle sticking out the back, two letters of reference, an internet connection and a note from my second grade school teacher, with me, it's not happening. I'm taking my business elsewhere.

Bah. /rant off.

[Urs]

"Ok, you've no been using this software for a while, now could be the right time to run into a legit license holder! We're offering amnesty and exclusive 50% discount, just follow the link below".

Muchly discussed, but the 50% off won't happen from our side. It would be efficient, but our legit users would feel, hmmm, "not so comfortable" with this solution.

[Richard_Synapse]

Master Developer Richard, Sometimes(rarely) I'll get a coder on whatever developer team I'm with who obfuscated his code for job security, who later quits or is let go.. then the client asks for changes on his source code.. no commits (please don't ask), and no where to be found except the compiled binaries.. and it is indeed nightmarish to unfold, especially under deadline! I've had to consume a lot of spaghetti in my experiences.. so to speak... and with no sauce. Crazy jumptables, polymorphism, actual source code obfuscation, you name it.. and often the best way I found is to simply learn how the coder thinks by observing enough of their code and guessing their strategy, eventually (hopefully) finding it and a method of unraveling... and hope it's not a tool I have to make myself to get the job done...grr.

Richard. I love The Legend and Dune 2. After purchasing the Legend I was so inspired and impressed, I told my wife I wanted a Moog.. and she got me one!! Woot!

I would love to see collab synths between you, Urs, Steve D, Andrew, and Markus. Other than spending time with family, this is my only hobby, and I grew up as a coder, so from my point of view you are all celebrities. You are all powerhouses that routinely raise the bar. Amazing!

Thanks a lot for your compliments!

Would love to do such a collab, should be a ton of fun! I'm pretty sure though all of us have ideas and projects to fill several lifetimes. But who knows, never say never

Richard

[Nielzie]

"Ok, you've no been using this software for a while, now could be the right time to run into a legit license holder! We're offering amnesty and exclusive 50% discount, just follow the link below".

Rewarding piracy with an extra whopping discount, isn't that a step too far perhaps?

Hmmm, maybe I should find a crack somewhere first then before buying

[FabienTDR]

Isn't this exactly the same trap the music biz ran into in such an obvious hmm.. if not even laughable manner? Exactly this, meanwhile almost pitiable, "landlord" mind of thought.

We also run a music label, and can tell you that Bandcamp and its philosophy easily generates 2x the income we get in total from repressive players such as Amazon, Apple and the last few others remaining. Two times.

At bandcamp, by default, every visitor could simply "save as" the fully unprotected "demo" and call it a day. Some certainly do it, no question. But at the end of the day, Bandcamp's model wins by length when it comes to profitability and positivity. In average, customers pay 20% over the regular price, and buy often! Over at itunes and amazon, things look MUCH different.

The positive environment and lack of suspicion and fraud paranoia around every corner is an invaluable Business and PR advantage. Positivity is by far the most expensive product on the advertisers' shelf. In 2017, you can't mess with "your next year's audience" and expect to turn them, with a few ads campaigns, into smiling sheeps buying your products.

Nothing to laugh about. These are hard business decisions, not welfare. Do whatever you want, but don't complain if this customer and his money will be mine. Positive vibes simply work better, and generate more profit.

Almost every newbie initially moves through the crack scene. That's the standard case, and in 2017, it's really YOUR job as a software entrepreneur to guide him out. If you don't, others will do. Young music software pirates are not criminals, they are perfectly reasonable newcomers. They represent the standard case.

Do you really call it wise to scare, insult and stress your future audience? Do you really think that they'll wait at your door the day they'll be old enough for their own Paypal account?!

When it comes to criminals, no question. But most of these guys often are not, they are newbies looking for inspiration. They are potential converts.

[stratum]

Almost every newbie initially moves through the crack scene. That's the standard case, and in 2017, it's really YOUR job as a software entrepreneur to guide him out. If you don't, others will do. Young music software pirates are not criminals, they are perfectly reasonable newcomers. They represent the standard case.

One cannot guide them out by giving undiscriminating discounts. They need to qualify in some way other than just being software pirates.

"Academic" discounts are common for people who can prove themselves to be students. Reaper has something similar for people with yearly income less than $20000 or something like that, but that does not count as discount in the sense discussed in this thread because their pricing policy has always been the same as far as I recall.

[Vertion]

Almost every newbie initially moves through the crack scene. That's the standard case, and in 2017, it's really YOUR job as a software entrepreneur to guide him out. If you don't, others will do. Young music software pirates are not criminals, they are perfectly reasonable newcomers. They represent the standard case.

I like the idea I had even moreso, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.. well sort of anyway.

I mentioned a collab between the plugin heavyweights..although I meant for synths/effects. However, what if a mutual website were created that presented itself like a one of these sites for cracks. However it were really just a marketing technique. The website would have a disclaimer page that no one ever reads because the little link at the bottom of the page to it, liability release, explanation of the legitimacy of the software as 'demo extension utilities'. Developers who want to be a member can put their 'demo extension utilities' on the site if they so wish for the sake of marketing. To make it seem like the real thing, go the way of McDonalds and title a sub-company '100% beef' so that you can say it's 100% beef.. or in this case, name-brand them 'cracks', and all the other buzzwords associated.

The newbies would download these thinking it's something for nothing when in reality it's just another marketing strategy... all just a larger part of the product's design. As Urs designed with his strategy, it would simply be a time delay, or in other way annoy them.. and perhaps an overall stop date down the road. You have to let them get comfortable with the idea that they have something for nothing first..and let them get comfortable using it.. to become a favorite.. then after some good time has passed, hit the brakes and deny all usage or most. That will get a lot of them to jump to the site and pull out their wallets (if they have money). They will feel like something of value was taken from them.. suddenly reversing the upsetting feeling and position... that Urs and other coders get when their products are cracked.. and flipping it back onto the newbies and pirates we are talking about.

An academic license is a good idea as some people really are not ripe enough yet to afford the full price.

[Vertion]

Would love to do such a collab, should be a ton of fun! I'm pretty sure though all of us have ideas and projects to fill several lifetimes. But who knows, never say never

You could take all your strong points and combine them. You could also release any product made, under one or all of the developer's sites, or under a completely new flag/sub-company.

You, Urs, and Andrew are obviously very talented at modeling.. and I'm not talking about a catwalk here.. I mean you all can utilize legendary hardware and create accurate simulations of them. (The Legend, Diva/Repro, The Drop/Glue). Steve and Markus are innovators in their own styles (Cthulhu/Serum, Rayblaster/Glad/Nemesis). Xoxos has very unique ideas. There are many other very awesome and talented Devs in this scene, but you all stand out very clearly.