Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[Chipi]

https://youtu.be/dppNT9kOHe4

Introducing the essential tool for every media composer: Cinematic Loops 2 is now available! Immerse yourself in a wealth of inspiring presets, centered around evolving arpeggios and sequences, fully editable and controllable through macro controls that put you in the driver's seat. This expansion also features an array of playable instruments such as pianos, strings, voices, multiloop guitars, brass, and other natural instruments. It's the complete package for crafting epic trailers, dynamic action basslines, atmospheric or emotive background music, or for infusing pure cinematic vibes into your EDM or Trance tracks. Cinematic Loops 2 makes use of all the latest Avenger 2.0 features, showcasing the creative mastery of the designer Manuel Schleis. This expansion exemplifies the impressive capabilities of the new VPS Avenger!

this expansion adds to your library:

132 Avenger presets 28 new drumkits
28 new drum sequences 191 new granular samples
45 new multisamples 4 new multiloops
12 new wavetables 136 new arpeggio patterns

I bought it yesterday, awesome sounds for electronic music and cinematic! Thanks for this fantastic update of Avenger 2! it's tremendous!

[AxlMaldini]

hi Manuel would be cool if you could reply to this please? why are Avenger XPs not royalty free when sample packs are?

The excerpt you provided is a copyright statement that outlines the terms and restrictions associated with the use of a product, referred to as "PRODUCT," created by keilwerth Audio / Vengeance. Here's a breakdown of the key points:

Copyright Ownership: The product, in its entirety or in part, is protected by copyright. The copyright holder is keilwerth Audio / Vengeance.

Copyright Year: The copyright is specified as 2009, indicating the year when the copyright was initially established.

All Rights Reserved: The statement emphasizes that all rights are reserved. This means that the copyright holder retains exclusive rights to reproduce, distribute, and display the copyrighted work.

Protection Under Laws: The product is protected by the United States copyright laws, international treaties, and all other applicable national or international laws. This underscores the global protection of the product under copyright regulations.

Restrictions on Use: The statement prohibits the copying, photocopying, translation, or reduction of the product, whether in whole or in part, to any electronic medium or machine-readable form without prior written consent from the AUTHOR(S).

Consent Requirement: Any use of the product that involves copying, translating, or reducing it in any form requires prior written consent from the AUTHOR(S).

Sole Ownership: The sole owner of the product is identified as the AUTHOR(S).

In summary, this copyright statement is asserting the intellectual property rights of keilwerth Audio / Vengeance over the specified product, and it establishes clear restrictions on how the product can be used, emphasizing the need for prior written consent for certain actions. Users are expected to comply with these terms to respect the copyright holder's rights.

No Warranty: The AUTHOR(S) explicitly states that they provide absolutely no warranty for the software and information.

"As Is" Basis: The software and information are provided "as is," indicating that the user receives them in their current state without any guarantees or assurances of performance.

No Implied Warranties: There are no implied warranties of any kind, including implied warranties of merchantability (fitness for a commercial purpose) and fitness for a particular purpose.

User's Responsibility: The entire risk regarding the quality and usefulness of the software and information is placed on THE USER. If the information is incorrect or the software doesn't work as expected, THE USER assumes the responsibility and cost of any necessary servicing, repair, or correction.

Limitation of Liability: The AUTHOR(S) explicitly states that they will not be liable to THE USER for any damages, lost profits, lost monies, or other special, incidental, or consequential damages arising from the use or inability to use the software and/or information. This includes potential losses such as loss of data or harm sustained by third parties.

Knowledge of Potential Damages: Even if THE USER has informed the AUTHOR(S) of the possibility of such damages, the AUTHOR(S) disclaims liability.

Claims by Third Parties: The disclaimer extends to any claims by third parties.

In summary, this disclaimer serves to inform users that they are using the software and information at their own risk, without any guarantees or warranties from the AUTHOR(S). The user is responsible for any issues that may arise, and the AUTHOR(S) is not liable for any damages or losses.

Restrictions on Use: THE USER is prohibited from using, copying, modifying, translating, or transferring the PRODUCT or any copy of it, except as explicitly defined in the agreement. Attempts to unlock or bypass copy-protection or authentication algorithms are not allowed.

Copyright Notice and Modification: THE USER is not allowed to remove or modify any copyright notice, "about" dialog, or the method by which it may be invoked.

Software License, Sample License, Rights, and Restrictions:

License Grant: A personal, revocable, non-exclusive license (the "Licence") is granted to the user to access, read, use, and download one copy of the Licensed Materials for specific purposes outlined in paragraph 3.
Ownership and Transfer: THE USER may not own or transfer title to the Licensed Materials to another party.
Distribution: Distribution, sublicensing, or providing copies of or access to the Licensed Materials to any third party is prohibited.
Creation of Derivative Works: Creating derivative works, reverse engineering, decompiling, disassembling, and various other actions on the Licensed Materials are expressly prohibited.
Technological Protection Measures: Circumventing, removing, altering, or impairing any technological protection measures, digital rights management information, or other copy-protection mechanisms is not allowed.
Commercial Use Restrictions: Commercial use restrictions are specified, including limitations on using compositions, melodies, lyrics, and vocal samples from Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries commercially.
Authorization and Fee: The licensor is not obligated to provide certain authorizations, reserves the right to charge a fee for such authorizations, and may cancel the authorization at their sole discretion.

Applicability of Restrictions: The restrictions set out in the agreement do not apply to the extent they are prohibited by applicable law.

Enforcement: The licensor has the right to inspect and enforce the restrictions and covenants contained in the agreement at the user's sole expense. The user is required to promptly notify the licensor of any known violations.

Protection of Licensed Materials: THE USER agrees to protect the Licensed Materials from unauthorized use, reproduction, distribution, or publication.

Download and Updates: Upon execution of the agreement, the user is permitted to download a copy of the Licensed Materials and updates to the Licensed Software as deemed necessary by the licensor.

In summary, this agreement outlines a set of strict restrictions and conditions regarding the use of the specified product, emphasizing limitations on user actions and commercial use of certain materials. Users are expected to adhere to these terms to comply with the agreement.


Personal Use Authorization: THE USER is authorized to use the Licensed Materials only for personal use.

Equipment Rental Restriction: THE USER may not rent out to others equipment on which the Licensed Software is installed or by which the Licensed Library is accessible without obtaining a written rental license from the licensor. The licensor reserves the right to charge a fee for a rental license.

Installation on Multiple Devices: THE USER may install the Licensed Software on as many devices as required for personal use, provided such devices are used only by the user.

Online Activation Requirement (VPS Avenger):

The Licensed Materials need to connect to the licensor's server at least once every ninety (90) days.
THE USER is authorized to activate the Licensed Materials on three (3) computers at any time, as long as the computers belong to the user.
License Transfer Restrictions: When licenses are used to upgrade to new Licensed Materials, THE USER may not sell or transfer the original license. Transferring the original license may result in the termination of the license for upgraded Licensed Materials.

Designation of NFR Version: The licensor may designate certain Licensed Materials as "trial," "evaluation," "not for resale," or similar ("NFR Version"). THE USER may install and use the NFR Version only for the specified period and purposes. Materials produced with the NFR Version must not be used for commercial purposes.

Recommendation for Backup: When the Services provide online storage, users are recommended to regularly back up their Content elsewhere. The licensor may impose reasonable technical limits on file size, storage space, processing capacity, and may suspend services if storage space limits are exceeded. The licensor reserves the right to delete user Content.

Service Availability and Legality: Not all Services or features may be available in all countries. User-generated content available via the Services may not be legal or available in certain countries. Access to certain Services in specific countries may be blocked by the licensor or foreign governments. Users are responsible for ensuring that their use of the Services is legal and available in their location.

Account Responsibility: THE USER is responsible for all activity that occurs via their account. Sharing account information, using another person's account, or violating terms may result in refusal of service and/or termination of all licenses in the person's account.

In summary, these usage conditions provide specific guidelines and restrictions regarding the personal use, rental, installation, online activation, license transfer, and other aspects of the Licensed Materials. Users are expected to adhere to these conditions to comply with the agreement.


Indemnification Clause:

Scope: THE USER agrees to indemnify, defend, and hold the licensor (referred to as "Us") and affiliated parties, including partners, lawyers, staff, affiliates, successors, and assigns (collectively, "Affiliated Parties"), harmless.

Liability Coverage: The indemnification is applicable to any liability, loss, claim, and expense incurred by the licensor and affiliated parties.

Specific Inclusions: The indemnification specifically covers expenses such as reasonable legal fees.

Grounds for Indemnification: The indemnification obligation arises from two potential grounds:

Violation of the agreement by THE USER.
Use of the Licensed Materials by THE USER.
In summary, this clause requires THE USER to indemnify and protect the licensor and affiliated parties from any legal and financial consequences arising from the user's violation of the agreement or their use of the Licensed Materials. It emphasizes the user's responsibility for any adverse outcomes resulting from their actions or non-compliance with the agreement.


Disclaimer and Limitation of Liability:

"AS IS" Provision: The licensed materials are provided "as is" and "as available." All warranties, express or implied, are disclaimed. This includes the disclaimer of implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

Possible Issues: The licensed materials may contain bugs, errors, problems, or other limitations. The licensor (referred to as "We" and "Us") and affiliated parties have no liability for any issues or limitations in the materials.

Limitation of Liability: The licensor and affiliated parties are not liable for any indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages. This includes damages for loss of business, loss of profits, litigation, or similar, whether based on breach of contract, breach of warranty, tort (including negligence), product liability, or otherwise.

Awareness of Possible Damages: Even if advised of the possibility of such damages, the negation of damages is considered a fundamental element of the agreement between the user and the licensor. The licensed materials would not be provided without such limitations.

Exclusion of Responsibility for Damages: All responsibility or liability for any damages caused by the licensed materials is disclaimed. This includes damages caused by computer viruses or other malicious code contained within the licensed software.

In summary, this clause emphasizes that the licensed materials are provided without warranties, and the licensor and affiliated parties are not liable for any issues or damages, whether direct or indirect, arising from the use of the materials. The user is made aware of the limitations and exclusions of liability, and these are considered fundamental elements of the agreement.


Use of Information:

Reservation of Rights: The licensor (referred to as "We" and "Us") reserves the right to utilize and assign all information related to the user's (referred to as "You" or "Your") use of the licensed materials.

User Authorization: The user authorizes the licensor to use and assign all information provided by the user in any manner consistent with the licensor's Privacy Policy.

Consistency with Privacy Policy: The use and assignment of information will be conducted in a manner that aligns with the terms and practices outlined in the licensor's Privacy Policy.

In summary, this clause specifies that the licensor has the right to use and assign information related to the user's use of the licensed materials. The user's authorization is granted for this purpose, and the use of information will adhere to the guidelines set forth in the licensor's Privacy Policy. It emphasizes transparency and aligning with established privacy practices.


Ownership and Intellectual Property Rights:

Copyright Ownership: The licensor (referred to as "Us") asserts ownership of all copyright in the licensed software, which includes documentation, media, packaging, and illustrations. However, this ownership excludes any sublicensed software. Importantly, the user (referred to as "You") does not acquire title to any copyright in the licensed materials or sublicensed software under this agreement.

Logos, Product Names, and Trademarks: The licensor or third parties may own certain logos, product names, and trademarks that are included within the licensed materials or related documentation, media, packaging, and illustrations. The user does not acquire title to any such logos, product names, or trademarks under this agreement.

In summary, this clause clarifies that the licensor retains ownership of the copyright in the licensed software and associated elements, and the user does not gain any copyright ownership rights through this agreement. Additionally, the user does not acquire ownership rights to logos, product names, or trademarks associated with the licensed software. It underscores the distinction between the user's right to use the software under the license and the licensor's retained ownership of intellectual property rights.


Operating License:

Non-Exclusive Right: The user (referred to as "THE USER") is granted a non-exclusive right to use the PRODUCT. This right is limited to a single person and a single computer at any given time.

Physical Transfer: If the PRODUCT allows, THE USER may physically transfer it from one computer to another. However, the condition is that the PRODUCT should still be used by a single person on a single computer at any given time.

Group Projects: In cases of group projects where multiple individuals will be using the PRODUCT, each member of the group is required to purchase an individual license.

Local Area Network (LAN) Usage: Usage over a local area network (within the same locale) is permitted, but again, the condition is that the PRODUCT should be used only by a single person on a single computer at any given time.

In summary, this clause specifies that THE USER has a non-exclusive right to use the PRODUCT, with certain conditions. It emphasizes the restriction of usage to a single person on a single computer, and it provides provisions for physical transfer, group projects, and LAN usage, all with the overarching requirement of individual usage at any given time.


Backup:

Backup Copy: THE USER is allowed to create one copy of the software part of the PRODUCT exclusively for backup purposes.

Reproduction and Copyright Notice: When making the backup copy, THE USER is required to reproduce and include the copyright notice on the backup copy.

In essence, this clause grants the user the right to create a single backup copy of the software for safeguarding purposes, with the condition that the copyright notice must be retained on the backup copy. This is a common provision to ensure that users have a means to recover the software in case the original copy is lost or damaged.


Terms:

License Duration: The license remains effective until it is terminated.

Termination by THE USER: THE USER has the option to terminate the license by destroying the complete PRODUCT along with all copies of it.

Automatic Termination: The license will automatically terminate if THE USER fails to comply with any terms or conditions specified in the agreement.

Responsibility upon Termination: In the event of termination, THE USER agrees to either destroy all copies of the software and documentation or return them to the AUTHOR(S) for proper disposal.

In summary, this section establishes the conditions for the duration of the license, providing termination options for both the user and the licensor, and outlining the actions to be taken upon termination.


Termination:

Termination by Us: This Agreement is in effect until terminated by Us, and we have the authority to terminate it with or without cause, at our sole discretion. We reserve the right to terminate the agreement without notice if You fail to comply with any of its terms. Such termination by Us is in addition to any other rights and remedies available to Us, including injunctions and other equitable remedies.

Survival of Certain Provisions: Certain provisions of the agreement, including disclaimers, limitations on liability, ownership, termination, interpretation, Your warranty, and indemnity provisions, will continue to apply even after the termination or expiry of the Agreement.

Automatic Termination for Violation: The Agreement will automatically terminate if You violate or assist in the violation of any of the restrictions outlined in paragraph 2(2).

Post-Termination Obligations: Upon termination of the Agreement, You are obligated to destroy any copies of the Licensed Materials in your possession, whether in electronic or printed format.

In summary, this section clarifies the circumstances and procedures for the termination of the agreement, as well as the consequences and ongoing obligations in the event of termination.


Miscellaneous:

Governing Law: The Agreement is treated as though it was executed and performed in the province of Hessen, Germany, and it is governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the province of Hessen, without regard to conflict of law principles.

Time Limit for Causes of Action: Any causes of action You may have with respect to the Licensed Materials must be instituted within six (6) months after the cause of action arose, or they will be forever waived and barred. All actions are subject to the limitations set forth in paragraph 7 of this Agreement.

Interpretation and Construction: The language in this Agreement is interpreted for its fair meaning and not construed strictly for or against either party. The division of the Agreement into sections and the use of headings are for convenience of reference only and do not affect the construction or interpretation of the Agreement.

Legal Proceedings Location: All legal proceedings arising out of or in connection with this Agreement shall be brought solely in Vancouver, British Columbia. You expressly submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of said courts and consent to extra-territorial service of process.

Severability: If any part of this Agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed consistent with applicable law, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect.

Enforcement: Failure of Us to enforce any provision of this Agreement shall not be deemed a waiver of such provision nor of the right to enforce such provision.

Agreement Review: You agree to review this Agreement before downloading, copying, installing, or using the Licensed Materials. The Agreement may be amended by Us from time to time without specific advance notice to You. The latest Agreement will be provided with updates to the Licensed Software, and You should review the Agreement prior to using the Licensed Materials.

Entire Agreement: This Agreement, as modified from time to time and including the policies incorporated by reference, constitutes the entire and only agreement between You and Us, superseding all prior or contemporaneous agreements, representations, warranties, and understandings with respect to the Licensed Materials.

Precedence: To the extent that anything in or associated with the Licensed Materials is in conflict or inconsistent with this Agreement, this Agreement shall take precedence.

[oneway]

I'm not sure if this helps at all for anyone feeling slighted by how that agreement works, but even though other companies say an acapella is totally free to use it doesn't mean you won't run into some problem later when an automated piracy prevention tool at YouTube or TikTok decides you infringed on the other song that used it first. It can be difficult to sort those situations out between two indie artists. You can even get automated copyright takedown notices for posting your own song, depending on how you do it.

Also, a frequent way I've seen acapellas from sample packs used is when an artist will build an instrumental with one as a temporary vocal before finding a singer to work with. For that function, none of this matters at all. I'm sure an artist using vocal samples for that purpose would find Avenger's offerings great. They're well done.

[SiriusVI]

Buy yourself a microphone and use your precious voice [...] Create your own songs, Avenger is a synthesizer with incredible potential! Good luck !

Well ... that is exactly my point. Why would ANYONE buy an Avenger VOCAL pack if they cannot use the VOCALS in this VOCAL pack. Everyone would in fact be much better off buying a microphone and using their own voice instead of wasting money on an expansion they cannot use!

It's very simple: I buy a vocal pack, I wanna use the vocals. Especially the female vocals, because my voice, precious though it might be, sounds rather male due to me being a man with a manly voice.

So thx for proving my point, I guess. Stick clear of Avenger vocal packs. DO NOT BUY!

Also, because I saw Manuel posting earlier: thx for not responing to my customer support emails for over a year. Very trustworthy!

[Razzia]

I'm not sure if this helps at all for anyone feeling slighted by how that agreement works, but even though other companies say an acapella is totally free to use it doesn't mean you won't run into some problem later when an automated piracy prevention tool at YouTube or TikTok decides you infringed on the other song that used it first. It can be difficult to sort those situations out between two indie artists. You can even get automated copyright takedown notices for posting your own song, depending on how you do it.

In my mind, that comparison falls a little flat unless the guy who made the copyright claim sold you the acapella. I think more transparency is needed here. Royalty free sample packs and preset packs are so ubiquitous that it's the expectation. Probably most people don't even think to check if it's okay to use paid presets in their music. It's their implied purpose. I'm willing to bet only a tiny percentage of people actually read the license agreement at all, let alone before buying.

A long time ago when this first came up Manuel did respond to it but I only have a vague memory of what was said. Something about how the intent of that provision of the agreement was to protect the melodies themselves, and he went on to describe what constitutes a "melody," as he sees it, under the license agreement. Again the caveat: this is just my imperfect memory of what I read probably over a year ago. The language SiriusVI quoted from the license agreement is more comprehensive than that though, and stuff like vocal packs add a layer of complexity to the whole thing. Even if it's not meant to be enforced as aggressively as it's worded, it would be enough to make me wary of using those presets in music if I intended to release it commercially.

Also, a frequent way I've seen acapellas from sample packs used is when an artist will build an instrumental with one as a temporary vocal before finding a singer to work with. For that function, none of this matters at all. I'm sure an artist using vocal samples for that purpose would find Avenger's offerings great. They're well done.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be permissible either under the agreement if SiriusVI quoted accurately. Here it is from his comment:

“This is not a transfer of title.
2 Under the Licence you may not and shall not, without Our express written authorization:
[…]
- commercially use any compositions, melodies, melody-loops, lyrics, and vocal-samples or parts hereof from any Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries. All rights on melodies, musical compositions, lyrics, vocals, and melody-loops included in Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries are owned by Us and are reserved.[/i]”

[enCiphered]

Buy yourself a microphone and use your precious voice [...] Create your own songs, Avenger is a synthesizer with incredible potential! Good luck !

Well ... that is exactly my point. Why would ANYONE buy an Avenger VOCAL pack if they cannot use the VOCALS in this VOCAL pack. Everyone would in fact be much better off buying a microphone and using their own voice instead of wasting money on an expansion they cannot use!

It's very simple: I buy a vocal pack, I wanna use the vocals. Especially the female vocals, because my voice, precious though it might be, sounds rather male due to me being a man with a manly voice.

So thx for proving my point, I guess. Stick clear of Avenger vocal packs. DO NOT BUY!

That's exactly what happens when you become a fanboy. You're so blinded by your enthusiasm that you can't see the flaws right in front of your face. Instead you try desperately to give nonsensical arguments and tips. I love those guys

[DCrown]

I consider Avenger as a fun and production tool at the same time.
Vocal presets and SQ presets where you hit one key and a whole song is playing maybe is fun for someone, but as far as I am concerned I would never use it in a production, first and foremost Avenger is a synth with some great presets and it offers so many things to create your own sounds/presets. I don't care about the fun part at all, though.
Today some people think you don't need singing skills any more for productions with vocals, just use some samples or Autotune, well, the repetetive results speak for themselves and AI will take it to a even more weird level.

I know there's an opinion who wants to tell us, that all that counts is the result no matter how you have achieved it.
I disagree, because the overuse of Autotune makes me immediately stop listening as soon as I hear Autotune, I just can't hear it any more, hurts my ears and brain, vocal samples often make a production sound kinda artificial and soulless and AI, well, don't want to hear Freddy Mercury singing a newly released song, he is dead, so let him R. I. P.
and it proves to me that the producers/"singers" have a lack of skills, so no respect at all

[Trancit]

The general question for me is anyway:

Why should I ever invest in vocal samples which exactly the same will be used by thousands over thousands of other people, risking copyright issues all over the place if for roughly the same amount of money I can hire a singer who does it exclusively for me, exactly matching the current project...

With all of these great offers on several specialized web sites imho all vocal packs are actually outdated and too restrictive anyway no matter what´s the actual EULA behind...

[noiseboyuk]

The general question for me is anyway:

Why should I ever invest in vocal samples which exactly the same will be used by thousands over thousands of other people, risking copyright issues all over the place if for roughly the same amount of money I can hire a singer who does it exclusively for me, exactly matching the current project...

With all of these great offers on several specialized web sites imho all vocal packs are actually outdated and too restrictive anyway no matter what´s the actual EULA behind...

Fair. Use humans!

If someone must use fake vocals, Vocaloid et al might be a better way to go from a purely practical copyright strike perspective.

[Teksonik]

What if you use a lead sound made by someone else that is easily recognizable? Is someone's lawyer going to come knocking at your door?

Again, why would any developer include content for any musical instrument that can't be used in the creation of music without fear of legal repercussions?

It makes no sense. Don't want people to use your sequence patch or vocal sample? Then don't include it in the factory content or third party expansions. Pretty simple.

No one respects intellectual property rights more than I do but this is just taking it to the extreme.

I get it, you can't use the samples to make commercial sound banks without permission and I support that but not to be able to use them in commercial music without worry is just ridiculous.

Keep in mind that not everyone is trying to be an "original" artist. Some just need backing tracks for YouTube videos etc and don't care if they're being musically original or not.

I always use my patches first since I made them to work best for me and I don't use third party sequence patches but I use samples a lot when making Avenger patches. I don't want to have to worry about using them in a composition because of some legal restriction placed on the samples. The end user should not have to worry about such things and for most synths they don't have to worry. I've been using sample based synths since the 1980's and I don't remember any issues with any factory content....ever.

I was going to release a free bank of presets but so many of them use factory samples that I'm just not going to bother now. Not worth the hassle.

Avenger 2 has become one of my favorite synths due in large part to the multi-sample capabilities. It is capable of making a nearly unlimited range of sounds but to be honest the developer's attitude is a bit off putting.

As an example of another kind of attitude, a very popular sound designer recently posted that one of his sequencer patches for another synth was used unaltered in a YouTube video that generated over a million views if I remember correctly. He wasn't upset, he was proud that someone took one of his patches and used it as intended. If anyone used one of my sequence patches I'd be happy. If I didn't want anyone to use it then... I wouldn't have released it. Not rocket science.

Ok enough wasted time. Back to making music......

[DCrown]

What if you use a lead sound made by someone else that is easily recognizable? Is someone's lawyer going to come knocking at your door?

Again, why would any developer include content for any musical instrument that can't be used in the creation of music without fear of legal repercussions?

It makes no sense. Don't want people to use your sequence patch or vocal sample? Then don't include it in the factory content or third party expansions. Pretty simple.
YOU CAN'T EXTRACT OR DELETE ANYTHING OF AVENGER CONTENT, BUT THAT'S NO DRAMA, SIMPLY DON'T USE IT!
No one respects intellectual property rights more than I do but this is just taking it to the extreme.
.
.......

Keep in mind that not everyone is trying to be an "original" artist

As an example of another kind of attitude, a very popular sound designer recently posted that one of his sequencer patches for another synth was used unaltered in a YouTube video that generated over a million views if I remember correctly. He wasn't upset, he was proud that someone took one of his patches and used it as intended. If anyone used one of my sequence patches I'd be happy. If I didn't want anyone to use it then... I wouldn't have released it. Not rocket science.

Ok enough wasted time. Back to making music......

I see, music is about speed now!
The one who uses a SQ preset first and renders it and uploads to Spotify or YouTube has a chance to get million views, wow, how creative, kudos !
Let's all press one finger on a key using a SQ preset by Schleis, press record, let it play for 2 minutes, render it, upload it.
Let's see who is first, in worst case we have 100 versions of the exact same track, maybe different durations only.
That's creativity, that's art, that's the future of music, that's a real exciting competition SQ presets vs AI productions, it really can't get better...

[enCiphered]

I consider Avenger as a fun and production tool at the same time.
Vocal presets and SQ presets where you hit one key and a whole song is playing maybe is fun for someone, but as far as I am concerned I would never use it in a production, first and foremost Avenger is a synth with some great presets and it offers so many things to create your own sounds/presets. I don't care about the fun part at all, though.
Today some people think you don't need singing skills any more for productions with vocals, just use some samples or Autotune, well, the repetetive results speak for themselves and AI will take it to a even more weird level.

This is the perspective of a bedroom producer and hobbyist. If you only make music for fun or out of boredom, then I agree with you. However, if you earn money with it because you create content for TV, advertising, or write soundtracks for films, then not. Because then you are constantly dependent on production-ready samples of all kinds, always available when you need them.
Of course, needless to say that you shouldn't implement vocals one-to-one in your project but change or adapt them accordingly.

[DCrown]

I consider Avenger as a fun and production tool at the same time.
Vocal presets and SQ presets where you hit one key and a whole song is playing maybe is fun for someone, but as far as I am concerned I would never use it in a production, first and foremost Avenger is a synth with some great presets and it offers so many things to create your own sounds/presets. I don't care about the fun part at all, though.
Today some people think you don't need singing skills any more for productions with vocals, just use some samples or Autotune, well, the repetetive results speak for themselves and AI will take it to a even more weird level.

This is the perspective of a bedroom producer and hobbyist. If you only make music for fun or out of boredom, then I agree with you. However, if you earn money with it because you create content for TV, advertising, or write soundtracks for films, then not. Because then you are constantly dependent on production-ready samples of all kinds, always available when you need them.

I didn't refer to samples in general, vocal samples are different from a VSTi plugin with sampled piano. You play the piano and add your skills to the performance. You still have to perform, whereas using vocal samples singing a short refrain, well, no creativity at all.
I don't care about tv or ads or movies at all, I am not a consumer of such things. Do you still have or use tv in your country? , sounds like I received a message from someone from the past.
Well, as far as I am concerned I would not call me just bedroom producers, I am able to play an instrument on stage, even more than just one instrument.
I would never pay people who try to earn money without basic skills, who buys and pays for a car that can only drive backwards?! a car made by people who don't really no about car production in detail, omg they even forgot to ad brakes...
But in 2023 I am not surprised people would pay for such a car. About 15 years ago mediocrity ruled, now it's not even mediocrity any more

[revvy]

hope you’re ok

[noiseboyuk]

However, if you earn money with it because you create content for TV, advertising, or write soundtracks for films, then not. Because then you are constantly dependent on production-ready samples of all kinds, always available when you need them.
Of course, needless to say that you shouldn't implement vocals one-to-one in your project but change or adapt them accordingly.

Honestly there's nothing different about Avenger samples than anyone else's here.

There's two overlapping issues:

1. Being sued for breach of an EULA. Keilworth say they won't do this. Other sample vendors maybe not. Still unlikely though.

2. Getting a copyright strike from YouTube or a streaming aggregator. Highly likely. I once got this on a 100% live vocal track, an original song, but at least it was quickly dismissed. Point is - strikes are ubiquitous, and you need to be able to prove your stuff is original to contest it.

Production music has not allowed exposed samples for years for this reason, even in stems. By far and away the best way forward is to make original stuff, and not use exposed loops of any kind, unless you can get a written authorisation imo, because of (2) not (1).

The more exposed it is, the more trouble you are likely to have.