KVR Audio

mssngmrblz · Post by **mssngmrblz** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:22 pm

I have a pile of amazing patches i've
created over the past year or so.

Some of them are made with various
different wavetables and some of those
i'm sure are from Virus, Nord, Animoog
to mention just a few.

If I want to package all these presets
up to share/sell/promote, and include the wavetables can I get sued?

Patrick

P.S. I searched high and low for the answer and finally had to just ask.

blortblort · Post by **blortblort** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:57 pm

very good question...
maybe there is more "relative" information out there, but all I have been able to find is information that is particular to "musical" sampling...IE- from an artist's song/record, as it were...

sounds like what YOU are interested in is if those same sampling laws may apply to samples that come from HW, yes?

if that sound (be it one cycle or many...) is generated BY the hw vs the playback of a sample (ie- like sampling a Korg M1) then I do not believe the musical sampling laws can be applied entirely the same way... if they were, there might be a few developers of Kontakt libraries that might need an on call lawyer

That said- I am NO expert at all.

did find there are some good places to look for more info:
"Mechanical-Copyright Protection Society
and
Performing Right Society
Rules governing Samples 2012 "
and
relatively OLD SoundonSound article...

best I could do in a pinch, but perhaps following up and sending mail to some of the addresses referenced may yield more pertinent info

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:02 pm

mssngmrblz wrote:I have a pile of amazing patches i've
created over the past year or so.

Some of them are made with various
different wavetables and some of those
i'm sure are from Virus, Nord, Animoog
to mention just a few.

If I want to package all these presets
up to share/sell/promote, and include the wavetables can I get sued?

Patrick

P.S. I searched high and low for the answer and finally had to just ask.

unless you created the WTs yourself, or it specifies you can freely share, you cannot redistribute them.

what synth are you using the WTs in?

mssngmrblz · Post by **mssngmrblz** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:14 pm

Some Wt have been recorded from my Access Virus... or my Jupiter 6. Some I downloaded and could be from god knows where.

Serum. The wavetable is saved inside the preset file.

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:24 pm

Weird enough I could not find a definition of 'wavetable'. Curious.
However, combining fragments of info made me come to the following conclusion: a wavetable is a table based on single-cycle waveforms. These waveforms are recorded from real instruments.
I have no clue whether this definition is right or wrong though lol

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:34 pm

mssngmrblz wrote:Some Wt have been recorded from my Access Virus... or my Jupiter 6. Some I downloaded and could be from god knows where.

Serum. The wavetable is saved inside the preset file.

The JP is fine. A recording of a recording prob isnt. Having said that, if you havent actually ripped the original WT, i doubt anyone would care....

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:19 pm

Anyhow, if you really want to know you can find it here (beware):
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17

PS What I understand of it, is that a wavetable contains digitized audio. In other words: I wouldn't take the risk if I were you.

dmbaer · Post by **dmbaer** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:33 pm

Well, before anything else, you need to better define what you mean by "wavetable". I don't believe it's quite what most electronic music practitioners generally think it is. See this thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... e#p6217506

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:37 pm

Pretty complex matter for sure.
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... -47042-X_8

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:06 pm

It's a bit of a grey area.

If your wavetables are from a synth with analog or virtual analog oscillators, you are fine.

If they come from sample sources such as an M1, you cannot redistribute them.

If you are cloning the wavetable from a Prophet VS, Waldorf, etc., you cannot redistribute them. If you are just using one single cycle wave, I doubt anyone will ever care or notice. But if you are using a whole set taken from another instrument, that is a problem.

You're more likely to get away with single cycle waves then longer samples.

I would not presume to redistribute sounds taken from random internet sources.

Check the license agreements, and don't simply assume you can use something.

Personally, I would stick to my own original samples, true synthesizer waveforms, and additive and resynthesized waves of my own making. Not only does that put you on better legal footing, but ethically its the right thing to do.

fischkopf · Post by **fischkopf** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:15 pm

In most cases synth sounds are so heavily modulated and post-processed that by listening to a finished track, nobody will be able to tell which waveform was used for a single patch...

Hank the Knife · Post by **Hank the Knife** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:39 pm

A digitized single-cycle audio waveform is like a fingerprint. Just sayin'. I thought the OP was talking about presets, not about finished tracks, by the way.

phreaque · Post by **phreaque** » Sat May 25, 2019 8:07 pm

Let's bring back this topic...

I guess the copyright issues got changed a little bit recently. Is it legal to make a wavetable out of let's say Roland's D-50 and use this wavetable commercially in a preset?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat May 25, 2019 8:14 pm

Doubt it. You could always ask the respective company though. The user Piet W., for example, asked Access for permission to sample and provide the wavetables for some synth's format, and got the permission.

phreaque · Post by **phreaque** » Sat May 25, 2019 8:24 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2019 8:14 pm Doubt it. You could always ask the respective company though. The user Piet W., for example, asked Access for permission to sample and provide the wavetables for some synth's format, and got the permission.

Here comes the worst case scenario, I've never got a successful communication with Roland

anyhow I will try to email them and if they will reply, I will post an update here... Thanks mate.

Are Wavetables protected under Copyright?