automation question

[cytone]

Hi

When you record some automation and then play back from earlier part of the song the automated parameters retain their last values. Wouldn't it be better if when play is initiated the following happens?


- if automation is to left of play position set to last value (currently does this)
- if no automation to left but automation to right set to first value of right.

[pljones]

It's not really possible to have a correct "fix up". You need to ensure you set your automation up correctly yourself.

For example. I've a sequence with pitch bend. I record the sequence including the PB messages. I then decide I want to use only bars three and four of this after a part with no pitch bend. Your spec says the "part with no pitch bend" gets bent to the start of the following part. Not what I wanted! Then I find that when I loop, I get pitch bend left where it was at the end of bar four. What I have to do is set the value I want at the start of playback.

[cytone]

But it's not much different than how it works now. If you chop a part and leave the pitch bend higher than 0 at the end of the part then any subsequent parts you add to the right of this will start with this pitch bend value.

[mutools]

The reason why only parameters, controllers, pitchbend etc... at the left of the timeline are checked is because the timelime goes from left to right.

If you want your song to start with parameter value X, then simply put a parameter event with value X at the start of your song. It's logical, no?

[cytone]

Ok, how about if a parameter is automated during recording, then if there is no previous automation to the left of it the parameter is automatically initialised to it's first value at the start of the song.

[pljones]

But that's still wrong. I don't want everything pitch bent just because I start to use pitch bend later in a song! Or panned hard left, because I automate a sweep from left to right later on.

[cytone]

I've been thinking about this and can't see the problem.
For example you start a song with the pan centred and then at bar 4 record it sweeping to 100% right.

In the current way it works when you restart the song the pan will still be 100% right until it hits the automation part. So you will have to manually set it to 0 at the start.

In the proposed method when you start changing the pan position Mulab will know its initial value was 0 and store this at the start of the song. Playback will then be the same as it was recorded.

[pljones]

So you want it to automatically create events at the start of the song with "initial values" whenever an automation is recorded? That's starting to make more sense, you know... Just have to work out what "initial values" means - presumably the value MU.LAB "assumes" if it's never seen that particular automation before.

[cytone]

Internal parameters initial values are already stored but I'm not sure how VST parameters are handled. I'm not familiar with VST development but I'm assuming the parameter list is sent to the host from the plugin but it's only recording the values for setParameter functions. So Mu.Lab would have to keep a table of all VST parameter values. But I'd better stop theorising now as I don't know what I'm talking about

[Reincke]

Internal parameters initial values are already stored but I'm not sure how VST parameters are handled. I'm not familiar with VST development but I'm assuming the parameter list is sent to the host from the plugin but it's only recording the values for setParameter functions. So Mu.Lab would have to keep a table of all VST parameter values. But I'd better stop theorising now as I don't know what I'm talking about

Sorry for a late resume of this discussion. Right, let's stop theorising and drop some practical wishes. My first expieriences with automation this week led to the same problem an a similar question:

Problem:
As soon as you insert one parameter, you open "pandora's box". There ist no "switch back" to the previous setting until you explicitly (and manually!) state this. On the other hand I see possible problems by automatically inserting parameters (Where? How often?) , so ...

My question/wish:
Wouldn't it be nice, if the sequence editor would have a function that allows - triggered by the user - to read all parameters, controllers etc. from the target module and store this in the sequence at a point indicated by the user? So we could "initialize" the mentioned instruments e.g. at the beginning of a session or at any other point on the timeline.

Or is this still possible an I haven't found it?

[mutools]

You can right-click a MU.LAB module parameter and choose "Copy As Parameter Event To Clipboard"

Then you can paste this event in a sequence part which is targetting that module.

This way you can more easily program initialization values.

[Reincke]

You can right-click a MU.LAB module parameter and choose "Copy As Parameter Event To Clipboard"

Then you can paste this event in a sequence part which is targetting that module.

This way you can more easily program initialization values.

Thank you for the answer. Sorry, but I cannot find this option in context menu.

What I've done:
- open a sequence targeting a VST,
- left-click in the field named "All Notes",
- choose any parameter below "+Parameters",
- right-click on that parameter (e.g. "Release" in VST "mda piano").
There is no entry "copy as parameter event to clipboard".
There is no entry at all.

What am I doing wrong?

[mutools]

Right-click on a parameter knob!

Note that this "Copy As Parameter Event To Clipboard" only exists for MU.LAB's own modules, not for VST plugins. (because MU.LAB has no control over a VST's own editor)

Anyway, you can program a VST parameter initialization event by creating a small sequence part targetting that VST plugin, then open the event list editor and insert a parameter event, then choose the right parameter (the specific parameter list for that VST plugin will popup) and the right value.

Hope this helps.

[Reincke]

Right-click on a parameter knob!

Note that this "Copy As Parameter Event To Clipboard" only exists for MU.LAB's own modules, not for VST plugins. (because MU.LAB has no control over a VST's own editor)

Anyway, you can program a VST parameter initialization event by creating a small sequence part targetting that VST plugin, then open the event list editor and insert a parameter event, then choose the right parameter (the specific parameter list for that VST plugin will popup) and the right value.

Hope this helps.

Yes, both works fine. Thank you.
Although it would be nice to copy all parameters (the complete configuration) at once.

[mutools]

Right-click on a parameter knob!

Note that this "Copy As Parameter Event To Clipboard" only exists for MU.LAB's own modules, not for VST plugins. (because MU.LAB has no control over a VST's own editor)

Anyway, you can program a VST parameter initialization event by creating a small sequence part targetting that VST plugin, then open the event list editor and insert a parameter event, then choose the right parameter (the specific parameter list for that VST plugin will popup) and the right value.

Hope this helps.

Yes, both works fine. Thank you.
Although it would be nice to copy all parameters (the complete configuration) at once.

Note that some VST plugins have hundreds of parameters, i remember some plugin (don't know which anymore) that had around a million of parameters!! (iirc)