Maize Sampler 2 is on the way

[Burnie]

Please don't be swayed by some of the people that say that fx and the other things Brok mentioned are not important. Name me ONE synth - just ONE - that does not have these features and is selling well or at all.

Just for fun, no FX :
http://www.gforcesoftware.com/ins_oddity.php


What you are saying is true, but the point is : what is Caoxiang able to make ? Can he make all wanted features ? Good Fx are really hard to make, for example... If he can, and if he wants, of course, why not ? Nobody wants to prevent Caoxiang to make such a beautiful and rich beast...
I told that because his first project was to make exported vsti soundbanks. Now, if Caoxiang can make much better... Go on, man...

But how much will cost such a full featured sampler ?

[caoxiang]

Please don't be swayed by some of the people that say that fx and the other things Brok mentioned are not important. Name me ONE synth - just ONE - that does not have these features and is selling well or at all.

Just for fun, no FX :
http://www.gforcesoftware.com/ins_oddity.php


What you are saying is true, but the point is : what is Caoxiang able to make ? Can he make all wanted features ? Good Fx are really hard to make, for example... If he can, and if he wants, of course, why not ? Nobody wants to prevent Caoxiang to make such a beautiful and rich beast...
I told that because his first project was to make exported vsti soundbanks. Now, if Caoxiang can make much better... Go on, man...

But how much will cost such a full featured sampler ?

Yes, Logic EXS24 also does not have fx. Adding Fx and all kinds of modulation is not a small amount of work. I think I will focus on the samples first and at least make this part very good before going into another field.

[brok landers]

Please don't be swayed by some of the people that say that fx and the other things Brok mentioned are not important. Name me ONE synth - just ONE - that does not have these features and is selling well or at all.

Just for fun, no FX :
http://www.gforcesoftware.com/ins_oddity.php


What you are saying is true, but the point is : what is Caoxiang able to make ? Can he make all wanted features ? Good Fx are really hard to make, for example... If he can, and if he wants, of course, why not ? Nobody wants to prevent Caoxiang to make such a beautiful and rich beast...
I told that because his first project was to make exported vsti soundbanks. Now, if Caoxiang can make much better... Go on, man...

But how much will cost such a full featured sampler ?

Yes, Logic EXS24 also does not have fx. Adding Fx and all kinds of modulation is not a small amount of work. I think I will focus on the samples first and at least make this part very good before going into another field.

1. that's the correct way to go of course.

but:
2. the thing where maize sampler is unique in, is, that one is able to do sounds in maize sampler within the host, then being able to compile this complete work as a vsti and sell it. therefore the effects are an integral part of the sound. often the effects are the salt in the soup, and without them the sound suffers. why do you think most vsti's _have_ effects, even if they're emulations that don't have effects in the original? it's because you're more flexible with fx than without. a sampler never should be restricted to play the samples only, but should give the sounddesigner the possibility to program the patches within the sampler with fx that are needed for that sound. of course the end user could add fx, but he never can hear how the sounddesigner meant the sound to be stuffed with fx, if there are only the plain samples. that also applies to extensive modulation capabilities. due to the modulation capabilities and the fx the sound comes alive and sound the way, the sounddesigner intended the patches to sound right out of the box. and before you come op with that: no, it's not the way to go to sample all the samples with fx and modulations. if so, then only wiseley chosen. but the main part has to do the sampler itself with realtime filters, fx and modulations.
i could see a bright future if that all would work with maize sampler, as both, the sounddesigner and the end user would greatly benefit from a sampling enviroment that finally allowes them to do all that within one enviroment. that is unique, there's nothing that allows you to do so exept synthedit or synthmaker, which are far to complex for the average user and can't be opened right within the host one is familar with. i.e. take me, i'd pay 200€ for something like this, if it's capable of all that. why do you think kontakt is the leader in samplers? it's because it is dead easy and extremly flexible right out of the box. even if some don't like nexus (due to the fact they hate tarnce, which is understandable , why do you think nexus sells so good? because under the hood the sounddesigner has a tremendeus ammount of possibilities to work with the samples, be it modulation or fx. trust me, i made 4 expansions for it.

btw, i'm a former logic user and was a betatester for logic for 7 years, i know the exs indepth, and believe me, for other tasks than loading a program and manipulate it a rather facile way (which is not sufficent), exs is a pita to work with. or why do you think the exs manager is so popular (it's embarrassing for emagic/apple that they still, after all that time, leave these possibilities out their way and having an independant company growing immensley with a product that fixed the problems the exs has got since it was introduced)?
btw, even the crappy exs has a modulation matrix, even if not a comprehendsive one ... but it at leas has one.
i'll say it again: you are on the way to develop something very unique that an awful load of users are waiting for for a very long time. don't make the mistake and stop before the goal you could reach. it's sooo logical that you do it the full way, you'll be rewarded by a lot of sales if you go thet full road. i'm professionally working in the music scene since 1985, i'm a sounddesigner/mixer/mastering engineer for 15 years now, i make my living with that, i'm not trying to convince you for nothing, there's a reason behind it ... i've made patches on demand for so many synths/developers, trust me, i know what i'm talking about, i'm not here to pretend, even if it might come over like that.

don't let that chance slip through your fingers. if it really becomes what it should be, it's a hughe step forward for an awful lot of users. it's just too useful, if it's done right. see, in the end, if one doesn't want to use the extensive modulation capabilities and fx, he can still choose to not use them ...

[Karmacomposer]

ditto what he said (lol).

Being a sound and recording engineer for the last 20 years, and being a preset designer for over 5 years, I can safely tell you that you would be CRAZY to exclude synth properties, such as modulation and effects, in the exported vsti.

See, we (Brok and I) come from both a sound sampler AND preset designer background - you cannot have one without the other.

Maize could be amazing - and VERY profitable. However, right now, if you release it as is, you will sell to some and most people will put in on the shelf and forget about it - or sell it second hand because it cannot possibly fullfil their needs.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Looking from a business perspective: no one will buy the resulting exported vsti. It cannot be taken seriously. It needs to have PRESETS to be worth anything. And PRESETS can only sound really good when you have OPTIONS, like LFOs, VCAs, Modulation, effects, arps, gates, etc.

It's also too bad that the exported synth is just one whole sound. It needs to be a bit more complex than that. It needs to have a few layers (like 2, 3 or 4 at least) so sounds can be layered and zoned by the USER, not just by the DEVELOPER.

Mike

[xsd121]

1. that's the correct way to go of course.

but:
2. the thing where maize sampler is unique in, is, that one is able to do sounds in maize sampler within the host, then being able to compile this complete work as a vsti and sell it. therefore the effects are an integral part of the sound. often the effects are the salt in the soup, and without them the sound suffers. why do you think most vsti's _have_ effects, even if they're emulations that don't have effects in the original? it's because you're more flexible with fx than without. a sampler never should be restricted to play the samples only, but should give the sounddesigner the possibility to program the patches within the sampler with fx that are needed for that sound. of course the end user could add fx, but he never can hear how the sounddesigner meant the sound to be stuffed with fx, if there are only the plain samples. that also applies to extensive modulation capabilities. due to the modulation capabilities and the fx the sound comes alive and sound the way, the sounddesigner intended the patches to sound right out of the box. and before you come op with that: no, it's not the way to go to sample all the samples with fx and modulations. if so, then only wiseley chosen. but the main part has to do the sampler itself with realtime filters, fx and modulations.

Hi,
(well, I'm also a developer of maize sampler)

I almost understand, but still some questions. Kindly correct the following statements if necessary:

1. There should be modulation options and built-in fx both on the editor(the sampler) and the player(the end user uses), so that the sound designer can invent sound with more possiblities as well as the end user can see how the designer performs and understand the patch/preset well.

2. Compared with the 1, only the sound designer (the editor) can have access to modulations and fx but end users can't. The end users can only handle a small amount of basic parameters(overall ADSR, etc...)

===========================================================
What else, I've got something to ask, and please everybody helps me with the following questions:

Suppose you are now equipped with samples,
1. why you need modulations? If we provide you with free use of LFOs and ENVs and a modulation matrix, what would you do with it?

2. what kind of fx do you want(except reverb @_@), like chorus, phaser, flanger, etc..please name it. of course each fx will goes with its internal modulaters(lfo, env..)

3. aside from the above ones, FM, AM are concerned in your posts.
how would you use a FM and AM in the sampler(I really can't figure it out, you won't use a sine wave to modulate the sample wave I'm afraid).

===========================================================

Ok, enough for this post.
Thanks a looooooooooooooooooooooooooot for replying.
We want to understand you better and do what we can.

THX

[Karmacomposer]

No.

The end user should be able to tweak everything (effects, mod, etc) EXCEPT the sample placement (the entire multi sample grid). Even zone placement should be tweakable.

Reverb, delay, chorus and overdrive are the usual suspects. An LFO can be used to modulate a flange or stereo effect as well.

I think he is referring to having FM/AM synthesis in addition to the sample editing so that a preset designer/user can add synthetic bass or other instruments - greatly adds to the resulting sound. I could be wrong, but that's how I THINK he meant it.

Mike

[caoxiang]

No.

The end user should be able to tweak everything (effects, mod, etc) EXCEPT the sample placement (the entire multi sample grid). Even zone placement should be tweakable.

Reverb, delay, chorus and overdrive are the usual suspects. An LFO can be used to modulate a flange or stereo effect as well.

I think he is referring to having FM/AM synthesis in addition to the sample editing so that a preset designer/user can add synthetic bass or other instruments - greatly adds to the resulting sound. I could be wrong, but that's how I THINK he meant it.

Mike

Name a few other software sampler/synth as examples could also be helpful.

[Karmacomposer]

I am not sure if any exist - Kontakt can do a LOT of what is mentioned here.

Wusik can do much of it as well.

Halion, Mach 5 and most samplers can do most of what we are referring to, except for synthesis (FM, AM, etc).

Mike

[Vincent Sermonne]

I would like a sampler not a synthesizer, good editor sample library and a good samples player !

[sonicfire]

I would like a sampler not a synthesizer, good editor sample library and a good samples player !

Yes, but also a good sampler needs some basic modulation stuff, like flexible envelopes, different types of filters, modulation stuff and some effects...

[manytone]

I would like a sampler not a synthesizer, good editor sample library and a good samples player !

Yes, but also a good sampler needs some basic modulation stuff, like flexible envelopes, different types of filters, modulation stuff and some effects...

I couldn't agree more. I think though also keeping it simple to start (to a fine line ) but effective is the best solution. Definitely as Karma and you (Sonic) said, a few features are needed to make Developers like us want to use the format. Envelopes, Filter choice, Mod options and a few FX would make it nice providing the sample management was usable. FM and other options might be cool in the future, but lets see a good solid Sampler that has basic "usable" features as a sample player.

I am interested and have been watching this product but the features I need are what has already been mentioned by Karma, myself, and a few others. I'd love to release some of our samples in small packs in an easy to use and capable sampler. We sell samples in other formats, so if the product is right, chances are, we would make things available in your format.

Paul

[manytone]

I would like a sampler not a synthesizer, good editor sample library and a good samples player !

Yes, but also a good sampler needs some basic modulation stuff, like flexible envelopes, different types of filters, modulation stuff and some effects...

I couldn't agree more. I think though also keeping it simple to start (to a fine line ) but effective is the best solution. Definitely as Karma and you (Sonic) said, a few features are needed to make Developers like us want to use the format. Envelopes, Filter choice, Mod options and a few FX would make it nice providing the sample management was usable. FM and other options might be cool in the future, but lets see a good solid Sampler that has basic "usable" features as a sample player.

I am interested and have been watching this product but the features I need are what has already been mentioned by Karma, myself, and a few others. I'd love to release some of our samples in small packs in an easy to use and capable sampler. We sell samples in other formats, so if the product is right, chances are, we would make things available in your format.

Paul

BTW, I could expand on this with a few thoughts of what simple things are needed in a sampler to make it usable to someone such as myself, who develops samples.

Things like for example, will your product, in one interface, show multiple soundsets (sample packs) that can be chosen by the end user? Lets take our Ultimate Bass Kit for example. It has 13 different soundsets (sample maps) like fingered, picked and slapped etc. Each set is also velocity layered. I would want all of the soundsets to show (for the user to choose) in one interface and even better would be for the user to combine sets in one patch. (via keyswitching (or other method), or perhaps also even layering things like a Mic and a Direct sound at the same time) We have many products that would benefit from this sort of thing.

Also lets take our Sitar for a simple example. The sampler would need the ability to map one set of samples (The drone strums) to the left hand and the individual notes of the sitar to the right hand..... but only allow pitchbend to affect the right hand notes, not the drone strums.

Also a decent preset system to create presets for above. (With as mentioned FX available)

Will your product do these things?
Paul

[Karmacomposer]

Paul,

It definitely already has key switching, disk streaming and a few other things and the sample mapper is one of the best I have ever used - which makes me want to use this soooooo bad.

HOWEVER, the vsti side of things are just TOO vanilla for me right now.

It needs zoning capabilities outside the editor. You can HARDWIRE your samples (pretty much a multisample editor), but you cannot zone them in the software PLAYER side of things. This means the user is STUCK with whatever YOU created and gives them almost NO editing or tweaking at all, save one simple envelope and you only get ONE layer. Preset management does not exist at all, but they are trying to go with a more modular approach (you have a player that loads in .mse files saved in the editor). No effects,, modulation or filtering (on the vsti creation side especially) at all with this version.

It IS Mac/PC, which is another massively attractive feature for me, but without the things, you, Big Tone and myself have mentioned, I feel this product will NOT serve developers like yourself until they realize the importance of preset creation on the USER side of things.

Your best bet is stick with Luigi and William or look at Muon.

Mike

[xsd121]

~Well~

Some types of filters, adjustable envelopes, modulations and some fx...... I'll do some trial work...

[caoxiang]

Shaoduo Xie (xsd121) is another maize sampler 2 developer who is going to help you guys with all the synth/fx features. He has some experience with synth and also developed a synth VSTi called ganK. Hope we can satisfy your requirements in future updates.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4162.html