Maize Sampler 2 is on the way

[caoxiang]

duplicated post

[caoxiang]

and I disagree with you on effects. When you have built-in effects, you can create presets with more nuance and less overhead. I HATE loading in effects after effect external to my instrument - having it all in one place is way more convenient and allows for cool layered effects.

However, some people just don't like effects. So, turn them off. Don't use em. Most synths have effects and they make for very powerful additions to a synth's capabilities.

Mike

Mike, it is a question of what you want to do when using maize.
If you want a full fledged sampler then I agree with you.
But then you have things like contact and you can do all those things.

I am looking at this, and always did from a developers point of view.
Sure, effects can be useful but I can already hear people complaining about the quality of the effects etc.
the main goal in my eyes should be,
a developer tool.

See, that is where you and I differ. I, too, am looking this as a developer's tool. I mainly create sample collections, so I would use this to create virtual instruments for my in-house samples. I feel that effects are an integral part of any quality virtual instrument and allow for a higher sale value and customer satisfaction level - they feel they are getting something for their money, even though what I am really selling is my hard work and quality samples.

Of course, we could always agree to disagree.

That said, perhaps there could be a feature where you can choose what modules go into the resulting vsti - check off or on what you want to include (reverb - check, delay - check, nah, don't want any overdrive for this one).


Mike

About built effects and filters, it's difficult for me to design these algorithms which are both fast and good. A bad effect could slow down the sampler engine a lot. Just like in maize sampler 1, that built-in reverb almost eat 10% of CPU after I turn it on. On the contrary, there are a lot of 3rd party/external effectors in the host. They sounds much better and perform much faster. Usually they are free bundled with the host.
From the prospective of music production, it also makes sense to put the effect out of virtual instruments. Because this gives the mixing engineers more room to achieve their innovations. If the instruments are already wet, it's hard to reshape it for the specific music.

[Karmacomposer]

Well, as a recording engineer who uses virtual instruments 100% of the time, I find having good quality effects inside the vsti is one less effect I have to add to a track.

For vocals, yes - external effects are mandatory. For outboard synths that a client wants to use, yes. But when you can have a synth with effects in one package, for me, it is desireable.

But, whatever.

Mike

[Karmacomposer]

Is there any chance of releasing this in beta to beta testers (I volunteer) now?

Mike

[caoxiang]

Is there any chance of releasing this in beta to beta testers (I volunteer) now?

Mike

Yes, but not now. I will send a email to all old users for beta testing and we will use google code for bug tracking.

[Karmacomposer]

OK.

The reason I ask is that I am evaluating another option that will cost me a LOT of money and a percentage.

If this can meet my neeeds at least 80%, then i'll hold off the other possibility - but I need to know if this is going to take a month or 6 months before even the beta test can begin.

Thanks for your reply.

Mike

[caoxiang]

OK.

The reason I ask is that I am evaluating another option that will cost me a LOT of money and a percentage.

If this can meet my neeeds at least 80%, then i'll hold off the other possibility - but I need to know if this is going to take a month or 6 months before even the beta test can begin.

Thanks for your reply.

Mike

The progress is very good here. First half of the year is really a conservative statement. The features in MS editor are almost done. I'm working on MS player now to support XML and other stuff. After this, I have to do some internal (alpha) testing first.

It' great if we can meet your requirements. So besides built-in effects, what else do you think is most significant for you. It' better to add the requested features now rather than during the testing.

[Vincent Sermonne]

It' great if we can meet your requirements. So besides built-in effects, what else do you think is most significant for you. It' better to add the requested features now rather than during the testing.

I love several possible conditions for trig group samples and lonely sample:
After the note on,
- on key with low and Higth key values,
- on controller with the CC number, the minimum and maximum range values,
- Round robin with number and position cycle and/or random


oh yes and of course the "always"

It's very important for make a good virtual drum player

[Midiworks]

then it would almost being useless, without the support of major formats like .gig, .nki, sfz, sf2....shortcircuit came in way prettier and free

I don't agree with you.
If maize would be able to import just one format,
but this one without any problems and correctly,
then this is all I'm asking for and all that the user really needs!
[Sure, you need a third-party tool to do the conversion from other libraries into that format]

the main focus, should be on streaming capabilities like the giga studio.

The possibility to fully skin the exported plug-in.

Cross-platform compatible.


When all these things are present,
then it will be a more then useful tool for soundware developers.

which makes me think,
what about protecting the sample content?
[Maybe in the way that native instruments do it]

About the custom skin, here is my current plan and works:

1. Instead of just changing the logos, new maize sampler player's background picture is changable. So users can design the appearance of their instruments. For example, a fancy guitar picture as background for a guitar instrument. In this way, no company logo and instrument logo need to be provided, because all can be put in the background picture. I call this background picture "player skin", which already works now.

2. XML described control layouts. Obviously, just changing background picture is not enough for serious soundware developer. So a XML control layout designer will be introduced. It's not WYSIWYG (i.e. WYSINWYG ), but it provides a simple way to customize the player layouts. For example, knobs can be added for some predefined parameter, on screen keyboard can be shown or hidden. It will look like something like this:

<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="attack">
<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="volume">
<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="pan">
<Keyboard pos="90,30">
<GroupSelector pos="30,130" size="300,50">
...

And about instrument protection, here is my thoughts which are not implemented yet:
In the maize sampler editor, users could generate/import a list of serial numbers. These numbers will be encoded into the exported instrument files (*.msb). When maize sampler player loads this kind of msb which contains serial numbers, it will prompt end users for a serial number. If the input serial number (after encoding) matched one of the record, it will proceed, otherwise it won't load.
This can handy for users who want to simple protection in order to sell their instruments. But there is absolute no warranty on this protection. As you may known, nothing is uncrackable these days.

About the skinning features,
this sounds good!
Still a few questions remain,
what about the size of the GUI?
I think everybody would agree that we would like to be able to choose any size!
To have the freedom to make each exported plug-in as unique as it can be.
This also means, to let the user use his own graphic for knobs, buttons and switches etc.

about the content copy protection,
the problem is, no developer wants to see the sample content going around.
[Converted into other format's etc.]
all the wave files were available in the old version of maize, this should not be the case in the new version.
It would be great if all the sample content would be embedded into one file, just like soundfont or giga.

About the format import,
I think soundfont is a very good choice,
personally I always converted my own content into that format because of its flexibility.
but please, stick to the soundfont specification!
[Maize for example was only using six layers while the soundfont specification allows eight layers.]

Also automation for all the controls is very important!

Before I finish my thoughts one more question,
will it be possible to switch patches on the fly?

I mean, in the way that Giga sampler/studio was able to?
The streaming of maize is extremely good!!!
so I think it should be possible to achieve something similar.


So far, everything is looking very promising!

Cheers,
René

[Karmacomposer]

Personally, I am ok with just re-skinning. Creating the knobs, slider and such is a major undertaking.

I agree with everything else that has been said. Also, did I see CROSS-PLATFORM in another thread!!! Oh yeah! That was what I was hoping for.

Mike

[Midiworks]

If you don't want to create your own controls,
you can always use the ones provided by maize.
[By the way it is not that difficult, rather easy and fun! Take a look at http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/knobman.html ]

There is nothing worse than having controls that doesn't fit your background and/or visual style!

Don't forget, it is all about identity of your product.
It has to be recognizable as such, not as a VST that was exported from this or that application.

[you might also want to take a look at this,
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/skinman.html ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJvDz1tM ... re=channel

In fact, I have nothing against putting a small decent logo on the GUI, saying: "Powered by Maize sampler".

[caoxiang]

If you don't want to create your own controls,
you can always use the ones provided by maize.
[By the way it is not that difficult, rather easy and fun! Take a look at http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/knobman.html ]

There is nothing worse than having controls that doesn't fit your background and/or visual style!

Don't forget, it is all about identity of your product.
It has to be recognizable as such, not as a VST that was exported from this or that application.

[you might also want to take a look at this,
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/skinman.html ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJvDz1tM ... re=channel

In fact, I have nothing against putting a small decent logo on the GUI, saying: "Powered by Maize sampler".

The size, background and control layout/colors of the player are all changeable. So the default player layout XML now looks like this:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<Player width="593" height="242">
	<InstrumentLabel x="176" y="62" width="310" height="20" color="FFD1D7DE"/>
	<GroupLabel x="157" y="82" width="310" height="20" color="FFD1D7DE"/>
	<Keyboard x="9" y="180" width="574" height="60"/>
	<Knob x="394" y="122" action="volume" min="-30" max="6" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
	<Knob x="477" y="122" action="pan" min="-1" max="1" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
	<Knob x="74" y="122" action="attack" min="-1000" max="1000" interval="1" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
	<Knob x="148" y="122" action="decay" min="-1000" max="1000" interval="1" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
	<Knob x="222" y="122" action="sustain" min="-6" max="6" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
	<Knob x="308" y="122" action="release" min="-1000" max="1000" interval="1" color="FFD0D0D0"/>
</Player>

So you are able to give your instrument a unique look. The only drawback is you cannot change the graphics of the controls(knobs, combo boxes), but you can change the colors.

[caoxiang]

then it would almost being useless, without the support of major formats like .gig, .nki, sfz, sf2....shortcircuit came in way prettier and free

I don't agree with you.
If maize would be able to import just one format,
but this one without any problems and correctly,
then this is all I'm asking for and all that the user really needs!
[Sure, you need a third-party tool to do the conversion from other libraries into that format]

the main focus, should be on streaming capabilities like the giga studio.

The possibility to fully skin the exported plug-in.

Cross-platform compatible.


When all these things are present,
then it will be a more then useful tool for soundware developers.

which makes me think,
what about protecting the sample content?
[Maybe in the way that native instruments do it]

About the custom skin, here is my current plan and works:

1. Instead of just changing the logos, new maize sampler player's background picture is changable. So users can design the appearance of their instruments. For example, a fancy guitar picture as background for a guitar instrument. In this way, no company logo and instrument logo need to be provided, because all can be put in the background picture. I call this background picture "player skin", which already works now.

2. XML described control layouts. Obviously, just changing background picture is not enough for serious soundware developer. So a XML control layout designer will be introduced. It's not WYSIWYG (i.e. WYSINWYG ), but it provides a simple way to customize the player layouts. For example, knobs can be added for some predefined parameter, on screen keyboard can be shown or hidden. It will look like something like this:

<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="attack">
<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="volume">
<Knob pos="30,30" size="50,50" color="0x363428" control="pan">
<Keyboard pos="90,30">
<GroupSelector pos="30,130" size="300,50">
...

And about instrument protection, here is my thoughts which are not implemented yet:
In the maize sampler editor, users could generate/import a list of serial numbers. These numbers will be encoded into the exported instrument files (*.msb). When maize sampler player loads this kind of msb which contains serial numbers, it will prompt end users for a serial number. If the input serial number (after encoding) matched one of the record, it will proceed, otherwise it won't load.
This can handy for users who want to simple protection in order to sell their instruments. But there is absolute no warranty on this protection. As you may known, nothing is uncrackable these days.

About the skinning features,
this sounds good!
Still a few questions remain,
what about the size of the GUI?
I think everybody would agree that we would like to be able to choose any size!
To have the freedom to make each exported plug-in as unique as it can be.
This also means, to let the user use his own graphic for knobs, buttons and switches etc.

about the content copy protection,
the problem is, no developer wants to see the sample content going around.
[Converted into other format's etc.]
all the wave files were available in the old version of maize, this should not be the case in the new version.
It would be great if all the sample content would be embedded into one file, just like soundfont or giga.

About the format import,
I think soundfont is a very good choice,
personally I always converted my own content into that format because of its flexibility.
but please, stick to the soundfont specification!
[Maize for example was only using six layers while the soundfont specification allows eight layers.]

Also automation for all the controls is very important!

Before I finish my thoughts one more question,
will it be possible to switch patches on the fly?

I mean, in the way that Giga sampler/studio was able to?
The streaming of maize is extremely good!!!
so I think it should be possible to achieve something similar.


So far, everything is looking very promising!

Cheers,
René

About sample protection, maize sampler has two formats: *.ms2 and *.mse.
The ms2 file is the project file which does not embed all the samples in it and is only able to be openned by the maize sampler editor. The mse file is the exported version of your instrument which is self-content. All the samples, property and skin are compact into one single file for easy distribution.

[Karmacomposer]

I have a real need for a better version of Maize Sampler - and as soon as possible.

Any idea of when a beta version will be available to try and use.

Mike

[caoxiang]

I have a real need for a better version of Maize Sampler - and as soon as possible.

Any idea of when a beta version will be available to try and use.

Mike

We are alpha testing now. But the sampler converter is not done yet. I can give you a secret alpha copy if you want. Send me a private message.