Hi AA
Any particular reason the Output is behind the wet/dry ? To me it feels strange, in that I might set up a very squashy comp and then want to balance it against the dry. I might want to apply some dB makeup gain to this compression before I add to the dry. If I use the Output, I am also gaining up the dry.
For me, it would be more logical if the Output did not effect the dry ?
It's a small thing.
Suggestion: a bit more visual indication on the bypass switch? glow red or something?
Suggestion: bypass mode could keep the meters working?
Beautiful sound!
pot.
CL Series queries / suggestions
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independentfactory independentfactory https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=119206
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 122 posts since 6 Sep, 2006
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- KVRian
- 895 posts since 1 Apr, 2005
Hi independentfactory,
I'd like to differ. For me, the way the (little) output mix and gain stage is set up just right. It's a simple(!) 2-channel mixer that provides a handy short-cut to a "NewYork"-setup with just two adjacent knobs. How much easier could it be?
Cheers,
LiteOn
I'd like to differ. For me, the way the (little) output mix and gain stage is set up just right. It's a simple(!) 2-channel mixer that provides a handy short-cut to a "NewYork"-setup with just two adjacent knobs. How much easier could it be?
Sure, you're gaining the dry signal too. So, the simple aid is to turn the wet/dry-knob a bit more to the right, adjust the output gain if needed, and you get exactly what you're after. Dead easy to grasp and to use. Setting up any more complex routings should remain a task of the mixer.independentfactory wrote: I might want to apply some dB makeup gain to this compression before I add to the dry. If I use the Output, I am also gaining up the dry.
In this case you should use a classical send routing in the mixer(see above).independentfactory wrote: For me, it would be more logical if the Output did not effect the dry ?
Cheers,
LiteOn
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nick at artsacoustic nick at artsacoustic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=65180
- KVRist
- 441 posts since 14 Apr, 2005
Thanks, LiteOn, perfect hit, only one thing you suggested which has to actually be strictly avoided:
You actually should never use the compressors in send mode, and mix-back the dry outside the plugin, as there would be terrible phasing problems. Due to the nature of the fact that we modelled some crucial components such as transistors, resistors, etc, directly, to get a certain phase altering which colours the sound, similar as in some old analog compressors, the dry/wet mixing should be strictly done inside the plugin, never outside of the plugin.
In general:
A compressor is an insert effect per se. The only reason you would use it as a send effect in rare cases would be, if the compressor itself wouldn't provide a dry wet mix option. But as soon as you do so, if the compressor you use works like some old, colouring devices, you'd run into the same problem. Essentially, if you actually can use that certain unit as a send without problems, there's no or at least not much colouring added by the compressor itself (exept maybe some saturation), therefore it's rather clean and doesn't add that typical colour you'd want to achive when using a compressor for "making sound", so to speak. If a compressor unit whatsoever provides a dry/wet mixer, you should always use thatone.
An additional explanation on the use of the dry/wet mixer:
The output of the compressor stage sets the gain for both, the dry and the wet signal for a very good reason. If the output gain stage would apply the amplification to the compressed signal only, you'd pretty much destroy the relation between the dry and the wet signal you've so carefully set up. That way the dry/wet mixer would be pretty much useless. If you need more gain on either, the dry or the wet signal, just tweak the mix slider, as that mixer exactly does that: the balance between the compressed and the uncompressed signal. Then, when this relation is carefully set up, the output slider of the compressor stage drives the mixers output into the limiter (if on). That way you limit your signal as much as you want, making sure that you don't overshoot the plugins output in any situation, without destroying the relation of the dry/wet signals.
The bypass switch sets the whole plugin into bypass mode, hence the audio signal is not going through the plugin at all. Therefore the meters simply cannot work when the plugin is in bypass mode. It's like if you'd use the hosts default bypass button, the whole plugin itself is bypassed.
You actually should never use the compressors in send mode, and mix-back the dry outside the plugin, as there would be terrible phasing problems. Due to the nature of the fact that we modelled some crucial components such as transistors, resistors, etc, directly, to get a certain phase altering which colours the sound, similar as in some old analog compressors, the dry/wet mixing should be strictly done inside the plugin, never outside of the plugin.
In general:
A compressor is an insert effect per se. The only reason you would use it as a send effect in rare cases would be, if the compressor itself wouldn't provide a dry wet mix option. But as soon as you do so, if the compressor you use works like some old, colouring devices, you'd run into the same problem. Essentially, if you actually can use that certain unit as a send without problems, there's no or at least not much colouring added by the compressor itself (exept maybe some saturation), therefore it's rather clean and doesn't add that typical colour you'd want to achive when using a compressor for "making sound", so to speak. If a compressor unit whatsoever provides a dry/wet mixer, you should always use thatone.
An additional explanation on the use of the dry/wet mixer:
The output of the compressor stage sets the gain for both, the dry and the wet signal for a very good reason. If the output gain stage would apply the amplification to the compressed signal only, you'd pretty much destroy the relation between the dry and the wet signal you've so carefully set up. That way the dry/wet mixer would be pretty much useless. If you need more gain on either, the dry or the wet signal, just tweak the mix slider, as that mixer exactly does that: the balance between the compressed and the uncompressed signal. Then, when this relation is carefully set up, the output slider of the compressor stage drives the mixers output into the limiter (if on). That way you limit your signal as much as you want, making sure that you don't overshoot the plugins output in any situation, without destroying the relation of the dry/wet signals.
The bypass switch sets the whole plugin into bypass mode, hence the audio signal is not going through the plugin at all. Therefore the meters simply cannot work when the plugin is in bypass mode. It's like if you'd use the hosts default bypass button, the whole plugin itself is bypassed.
Kind regards, Nick at ArtsAcoustic
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- KVRian
- 895 posts since 1 Apr, 2005
Hi Nick,
thanks for the heads up and correcting me.
Cheers,
LiteOn
thanks for the heads up and correcting me.
Actually because of the zero latency I thought this could be some sort of alternative way for mixing the dry/wet streams outside the plugin. Seems my (rather stupid) sloppiness was two equal zero latency with exclusion of any phase troubles.nick at artsacoustic wrote:....., only one thing you suggested which has to actually be strictly avoided:
You actually should never use the compressors in send mode, and mix-back the dry outside the plugin, as there would be terrible phasing problems. Due to the nature of the fact that we modelled some crucial components such as transistors, resistors, etc, directly, to get a certain phase altering which colours the sound, similar as in some old analog compressors, the dry/wet mixing should be strictly done inside the plugin, never outside of the plugin.
Cheers,
LiteOn
