The linux DAW thread

[dellboy]

Nope, yabridge acts as an intermediate between the plugin host and wine, it creates a token .so file that the host will recognize as a native plugin. The plugin will still be run through WINE.

(If you run a Windows host in WINE you don't need yabridge or whatev, because the Win host will just load the Win plugins)

Ah!, thanks, I wasn’t sure about that, thanks for
putting that right.

[limitlesssss]

WINE is indeed not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer.

Wine is not necessarily used to run plugins, it can be used that way, but generally something like "Yabridge" temporarily uses Wine to convert Windows VST plugins into Linux ".so" plugin format.These converted plugins do not need Wine to run them. (as far as I understand it)

Nope, yabridge acts as an intermediate between the plugin host and wine, it creates a token .so file that the host will recognize as a native plugin. The plugin will still be run through WINE.

(If you run a Windows host in WINE you don't need yabridge or whatev, because the Win host will just load the Win plugins)

How about plug-in and DAW authorization? That’s another aspect that confuses me when talking GNU/Linux.

[FranklyFlawless]

Well, if you only use gratis and libre open-source software, you do not have to deal with such issues.

[audiojunkie]

all of them except for the u-he plug-ins need this WINE thing to run.

The U-He ones too, as you can't run Nuendo natively

Maybe you'd be better off dual-booting, using windows just for music production?

In this particular situation, I too think this would be the best option.

[audiojunkie]

How bad is recording latency when using WINE by the way?

I am not sure that Wine is used anymore for Wine asio. Most people just use the native Linux Alsa drivers which can achieve very good latency if you own a compliant audio interface.

WINE is a compatibility layer. Essentially Windows APIs for Linux. This allows Linux to run Windows apps at near-native speeds. Think of WINEASIO as the ASIO driver that has to be installed on a Windows machine.

So, in short, WINE “and” WINEASIO would both still be required to be used for a native Windows DAW. The good news is that you wouldn’t have to use yabridge for your Windows native plugins. But be aware—your risks are higher if your DAW does run in a very stable manner under WINE.

[audiojunkie]

of course, u-he and some others do "native" Linux versions (which then are not Windows native versions anymore)

i'm no programmer myself, but as far as i understand, at least if you are using "clean" programming languages and don't rely on too many third party tools which do not work too great on other platforms without quite some tinkering, it is in principle mostly "running the code through the compiler for each operating system" and most things will work out of the box.
there will be some differences in "details" like in the files handling (good luck telling Linux to look for C:\Program Files\VST, as Linux neither has letters for drive names, nor does it use backslashes for directory separations, as it uses "forward" slashes
also the windowing systems are probably handled differently on each OS.

Rosetta 2 uses native macOS code, which has been compiled for a different CPU architecture, so a bit like if an Amiga 500 and a C64 were sharing the same operating system, but the Amiga with a Motorola 68000 architecture could translate the code written for the 6502 (or whatever the C64 actually was using, i forget )
and just to make it clear: neither did the Amiga and C64 share the same OS, nor was the Amiga capable of running native C64 programs

WINE creates a place for Windows apps to feel like they are in Windows. So, to the perspective of the Windows plugins, they will be in c:\program files\vst (or wherever the correct path would be.

[audiojunkie]

WINE is indeed not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer.

Wine is not necessarily used to run plugins, it can be used that way, but generally something like "Yabridge" temporarily uses Wine to convert Windows VST plugins into Linux ".so" plugin format.These converted plugins do not need Wine to run them. (as far as I understand it)

Nope, yabridge acts as an intermediate between the plugin host and wine, it creates a token .so file that the host will recognize as a native plugin. The plugin will still be run through WINE.

(If you run a Windows host in WINE you don't need yabridge or whatev, because the Win host will just load the Win plugins)

Ah, I didn’t see that you posted the explanation already. Sorry about that.

To everyone else: Farlurker’s explanation is correct.

[audiojunkie]

WINE is indeed not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer.

Wine is not necessarily used to run plugins, it can be used that way, but generally something like "Yabridge" temporarily uses Wine to convert Windows VST plugins into Linux ".so" plugin format.These converted plugins do not need Wine to run them. (as far as I understand it)

Nope, yabridge acts as an intermediate between the plugin host and wine, it creates a token .so file that the host will recognize as a native plugin. The plugin will still be run through WINE.

(If you run a Windows host in WINE you don't need yabridge or whatev, because the Win host will just load the Win plugins)

How about plug-in and DAW authorization? That’s another aspect that confuses me when talking GNU/Linux.

There has been a lot of success by others in getting these authorization systems to work. However, I personally only use plugins that use serial number or keyfile authorization that isn’t tied to any hardware and doesn’t have to contact the company for activation. No challenge response for me. This that nearly removes the authorization problem from the equation.

[limitlesssss]

There has been a lot of success by others in getting these authorization systems to work. However, I personally only use plugins that use serial number or keyfile authorization that isn’t tied to any hardware and doesn’t have to contact the company for activation. No challenge response for me. This that nearly removes the authorization problem from the equation.

So I guess from my list everything works except for the Soundtoys plug-ins because of their need for iLok?

[dellboy]

How bad is recording latency when using WINE by the way?

I am not sure that Wine is used anymore for Wine asio. Most people just use the native Linux Alsa drivers which can achieve very good latency if you own a compliant audio interface.

WINE is a compatibility layer. Essentially Windows APIs for Linux. This allows Linux to run Windows apps at near-native speeds. Think of WINEASIO as the ASIO driver that has to be installed on a Windows machine.

So, in short, WINE “and” WINEASIO would both still be required to be used for a native Windows DAW. The good news is that you wouldn’t have to use yabridge for your Windows native plugins. But be aware—your risks are higher if your DAW does run in a very stable manner under WINE.

Somewhere wires have got crossed. Let me explain what I meant,and correct me if I have got things mixed up. Yes, wineasio would be required if someone wished to run a Windows DAW in Linux such as Cubase. I used to use wineasio in that way 20 years ago. But nowadays there is no longer any need for wineasio. Reaper, Bitwig, Studio One and Waveform can all be run using native Linux alsa drivers and plugins. There is no longer any necessity to install Wine. Only install it if you want to use a Windows only DAW, your Windows VST plugins, or some other Windows program that you need.

[FapFilter]

WINE creates a place for Windows apps to feel like they are in Windows. So, to the perspective of the Windows plugins, they will be in c:\program files\vst (or wherever the correct path would be.

yes of course, as Linux does not understand this natively

it is still some sort of emulation layer, but of course to a much lesser degree with just a couple of adjustments to the surface, compared to some emulation of completely foreign hardware and tailored assembly languages, where pretty much every single line of code and the whole system behavior need to be translated and emulated

[farlukar]

There has been a lot of success by others in getting these authorization systems to work. However, I personally only use plugins that use serial number or keyfile authorization that isn’t tied to any hardware and doesn’t have to contact the company for activation. No challenge response for me. This that nearly removes the authorization problem from the equation.

So I guess from my list everything works except for the Soundtoys plug-ins because of their need for iLok?

iLok seems to be a problem indeed

As for the rest of your list: most will probably work, some might not, or not reliably. Crapshoot.

Maybe you can test on a spare/virtual machine?

[glokraw]

I’m trying to leave Windows behind, but I need the software packs I’m currently using on Windows. I’m not interested in alternatives to my DAW (Nuendo), audio editor (WaveLab), u-he / Kilohearts / Soundtoys / Pianoteq / S-Gear. So if WINE works acceptably well, and I can run everything I mentioned on GNU/Linux, then that’s a compromise I’m willing to make. By compromise I mean the fact that all of them except for the u-he plug-ins need this WINE thing to run.

How bad is recording latency when using WINE by the way?

It's quite good in a well configured distro like AVLinux*. But Reaper is the only windows daw that consistantly works fine in most linux/wine setups. A few people have some success with FL Studio or Ableton, but they never stick around for the long run. Reaper, Bitwig and Mixbus are a trio of commercial daws with solid linux versions. Presonus may get there in 2024.

*The latency between my brain and my fingers, and the latency between my ears, are far more troublesome than the plugin latency in wine. I have most of Komplete and IK Multimedia working, along with KV331, and also both the linux and windows plugins from U-he and discoDSP. Plus many bargains from Plugin Boutique, and a plethora of great freeware, and some great old-skool linux native tools, Yoshimi, Rakarrack, and Hydrogen.

I stopped dual-booting years ago. Better to keep things separate. Drives are cheap. Time isn't.
Cheers

[glokraw]

New album time at Bandcamp, 'On The Horizon' has twelve instrumentals, running a bit over three hours, with three bonus and hopefully peaceful Christmas instrumentals at the end, to ease the holiday stress, or just encourage a nice nap.

https://franklincheney.bandcamp.com/alb ... he-horizon

On The Horizon.jpg

Merry Christmas, and Happy/healthy, and/safe 2024!

[audiojunkie]

There has been a lot of success by others in getting these authorization systems to work. However, I personally only use plugins that use serial number or keyfile authorization that isn’t tied to any hardware and doesn’t have to contact the company for activation. No challenge response for me. This that nearly removes the authorization problem from the equation.

So I guess from my list everything works except for the Soundtoys plug-ins because of their need for iLok?

I’ve heard of others even getting iLok to work. Apparently, the trick is that WINE can’t read the dongle, so you have to switch to using the iLok cloud.