Where is Reason 13?

[Trensharo]

Which DAW do you think I should give a try for a bettter sequencer which looks nice and feels like Reason .... a bit?

I just can't wait another year for possible sequencer updates in Reason....

Use whatever other DAW you like, and access the Reason Devices via the Reason Rack Plug-in.

Sitting on Reason "waiting for sequencer updates" hasn't been a thing since the Reason Rack Plug-in came into being. Stop waiting and just use a different DAW that you like.

Good candidates are those with relatively deep feature sets that have hte most value added to them by the MIDI Processors and Devices in Reason. Reaper, Cakewalk, Pro Tools, Samplitude Pro X, etc.

But DAWs like Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, Ableton Live, Bitwig, FL Studio, etc. also work exceedingly well (and are probably better than some of the others... you just get a bit more redundancy with the Reason Core Stuff due to what they bundle/include and their base feature sets).

[Trensharo]

ps: tap tempo in Cubase was introduced with version 13.........

v12: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v12/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v10: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v10/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v9: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ap%2Ctempo

v7.5: Operation Manual (PDF) - Page 618

Cubase 7.5 was released on December 4, 2013. I'm pretty sure this feature predates even that version... easily. So, well over a decade ago, Cubase got Tap Tempo.

It would have been hilarious if Steinberg implemented features like VariAudio, Sampler Track, etc. without even bothering to put Tap Tempo in Cubase, though.

So... False.

You skimmed the patch notes and probably have never used Cubase to have seen that it already had this function, then assumed that it was a "new feature" in v13 as a result.

This is what the Cubase 13 website says:

Tap your tempo
TRANSPORT BAR
Easily adjust the project tempo to the beat with the new Tap Tempo feature on the Transport Bar.

So, basically it was more of an accessibility update. Making the feature easier to get to and engage with. It was already there, prior to this update.

The new feature is the "Tap" button to the right of the Tempo fields on the Transport Bar.

-----

Reason is missing a lot of Sequencer QoL and the development team has had an eternity to add some of them. I am not saying development is easy, but if the features aren't there then it's an issue of developer prioritization - not user expectations.

They simply prioritized creating new devices over adding the sequencer features users have been asking for. It's on them, IMO.

Reason Rack Plug-in is nice that in that it allows you to not waste your investment if you decide you want a better sequencer. You can at least use the devices elsewhere more easily/with a better workflow; instead of having to ditch everything in completely (compare to switching from Logic Pro and its collection of vendor-bound virtual instruments and plug-ins).

[xbitz]

There are such minimalist styles where the current sequencer can also work perfectly, less than 30 tracks, each with 4-5 effects but that's perfectly designed, Jerome Isma-Ae & Alastor do such things, I don't know the name of the style, but they are damn good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUmNK1EKmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CrAz2AV850
etc.

[arcy]

ps: tap tempo in Cubase was introduced with version 13.........

v12: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v12/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v10: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v10/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v9: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ap%2Ctempo

v7.5: Operation Manual (PDF) - Page 618

Cubase 7.5 was released on December 4, 2013. I'm pretty sure this feature predates even that version... easily. So, well over a decade ago, Cubase got Tap Tempo.

It would have been hilarious if Steinberg implemented features like VariAudio, Sampler Track, etc. without even bothering to put Tap Tempo in Cubase, though.

So... False.

You skimmed the patch notes and probably have never used Cubase to have seen that it already had this function, then assumed that it was a "new feature" in v13 as a result.

This is what the Cubase 13 website says:

Tap your tempo
TRANSPORT BAR
Easily adjust the project tempo to the beat with the new Tap Tempo feature on the Transport Bar.

So, basically it was more of an accessibility update. Making the feature easier to get to and engage with. It was already there, prior to this update.

The new feature is the "Tap" button to the right of the Tempo fields on the Transport Bar.

-----

Reason is missing a lot of Sequencer QoL and the development team has had an eternity to add some of them. I am not saying development is easy, but if the features aren't there then it's an issue of developer prioritization - not user expectations.

They simply prioritized creating new devices over adding the sequencer features users have been asking for. It's on them, IMO.

Reason Rack Plug-in is nice that in that it allows you to not waste your investment if you decide you want a better sequencer. You can at least use the devices elsewhere more easily/with a better workflow; instead of having to ditch everything in completely (compare to switching from Logic Pro and its collection of vendor-bound virtual instruments and plug-ins).

I use Cubase from VST24, so I know that I can tap tempo with that hidden option, but other daws have the tap tempo in real-time in an accessible UI from day one. It's the same as bouncing a track in Ableton: now I have to freeze first and then flatten...it's a workaround...why don't put a bounce in place?? Ableton 12 still does not have this function...so, IMHO, every DAW have its drawback in tools, sequencer, included plugin etc...and so I can't speak about "legacy" when I speak of Reason DAW.

[Trensharo]

ps: tap tempo in Cubase was introduced with version 13.........

v12: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v12/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v10: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v10/e ... ap%2Ctempo

v9: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... ap%2Ctempo

v7.5: Operation Manual (PDF) - Page 618

Cubase 7.5 was released on December 4, 2013. I'm pretty sure this feature predates even that version... easily. So, well over a decade ago, Cubase got Tap Tempo.

It would have been hilarious if Steinberg implemented features like VariAudio, Sampler Track, etc. without even bothering to put Tap Tempo in Cubase, though.

So... False.

You skimmed the patch notes and probably have never used Cubase to have seen that it already had this function, then assumed that it was a "new feature" in v13 as a result.

This is what the Cubase 13 website says:

Tap your tempo
TRANSPORT BAR
Easily adjust the project tempo to the beat with the new Tap Tempo feature on the Transport Bar.

So, basically it was more of an accessibility update. Making the feature easier to get to and engage with. It was already there, prior to this update.

The new feature is the "Tap" button to the right of the Tempo fields on the Transport Bar.

-----

Reason is missing a lot of Sequencer QoL and the development team has had an eternity to add some of them. I am not saying development is easy, but if the features aren't there then it's an issue of developer prioritization - not user expectations.

They simply prioritized creating new devices over adding the sequencer features users have been asking for. It's on them, IMO.

Reason Rack Plug-in is nice that in that it allows you to not waste your investment if you decide you want a better sequencer. You can at least use the devices elsewhere more easily/with a better workflow; instead of having to ditch everything in completely (compare to switching from Logic Pro and its collection of vendor-bound virtual instruments and plug-ins).

I use Cubase from VST24, so I know that I can tap tempo with that hidden option, but other daws have the tap tempo in real-time in an accessible UI from day one. It's the same as bouncing a track in Ableton: now I have to freeze first and then flatten...it's a workaround...why don't put a bounce in place?? Ableton 12 still does not have this function...so, IMHO, every DAW have its drawback in tools, sequencer, included plugin etc...and so I can't speak about "legacy" when I speak of Reason DAW.

The only acceptable response to the correction you received is agreement with it... and moving on from it.

Instead, we get this weird attempt to finesse a blatant lie into a truth, while using some awful example of an Ableton Live feature that is "kinda, but not quite what we're asking for" to set up some intellectually dishonest false equivalency.

Cubase has literally had Tap Tempo since at least 2013. This has been demonstrated to you, and if you actually look at the v13 manual and compare the feature to older versions, you would see that it is practically equivalent to what was already there - save perhaps for UI tweaks. It is not something that "works similarly, but isn't quite what we're looking for." The only thing that has changed in v13, was them making it more immediately accessible.

Instead of accessing it from a Menu, you can now access it on the Transport Bar.

That's it. That's literally the only thing new about this in v13. But since you hadn't even evaluated those changes beyond what you saw while skimming, you came here to claim it was some basic feature that the DAW was lacking for 25+ years... Because the only way to make a point about DAW_X is to make DAW_Y look just as bad (in some way or another).

Also, the option was not hidden. It was in the base Project Menu (not even in a sub-menu). It just wasn't front and center, so the change is good. It just didn't add anything new, outside of that accessibility (not actual new feature was added in that area).

[LaLivre]

Any news on R13?

[jlgrimes11]

Which DAW do you think I should give a try for a bettter sequencer which looks nice and feels like Reason .... a bit?

I just can't wait another year for possible sequencer updates in Reason....

Studio One feels kind of like Reason with an updated sequencer. Studio One definitely has a better audio workflow. Midiwise it might be a little too much like Reason (with even a Block like workflow) but if you pretty much like Reason and want more Audio flexibility, I would lean here.


Reaper. very different workflow but inexpensive and highly customizable and flexible. A no-brainer to at least try as it has the most generous demo that never expires. Reaper would take the most time to master as while it is really nothing like Reason's sequencer alot could be customized to work in similar ways. Reaper by default appears pretty limited but once you right click, check action list, create toolbars, you will find am almost unlimited set of tools. Reapers routing and parameter automation while completely different than Reason has some of Reason's flexibility here as it has the most flexible routing.

Ableton. Very different workflow but somewhat complements Reason's workflow as Ableton is very pattern/clip centric. Also incredible integrated instruments especially the samplers. It has a bit of a learning curve but since so many use it, it has tons of great free tutorials online. Ableton biggest flaw us that it is probably the least flexible with player integration but it's M4L support might make up some. Most M4L devices aren't as fun but there are alot of them and has a better library of free stuff where Reason has better commercial stuff. That said with 12 there will be new Transformers and Generators which are integrated directly in the Piano Roll. Time will tell here. Also Ableton has great controller support.

Bitwig. More Abletonlike here but would probably be more similar to Reason's modular approach from a modulation standpoint so if you enjoy CV and stuff you might like Bitwigs modulation features. Better than Ableton from a modulation standpoint but Ableton probably has better instruments. I'm talking Ableton Suite though. I would guess Bitwig is probably better than Ableton standard from an synth standpoint.

[jens]

Studio One definitely has a better audio workflow.

I completely disagree with that. I find that an absurd claim to be frank.

[jlgrimes11]

Studio One definitely has a better audio workflow.

I completely disagree with that. I find that an absurd claim to be frank.

Audio is the main reason I put up with Studio One. I think it runs circles around Reason here.

1. Drag and drop of effects. Sounds cliche but in Studio one it is dead easy to create sends/returns. Also without any send limitations of Reason's mixer. Studio One can be setup pretty fast for send/returns. Faster than almost any DAW and yet pretty simple.

2. Automation. probably not the best DAW for this but still flexible and powerful nonetheless and better than most. Reaper is deeper here, but I actually like Ableton better but it isn't as deep as Studio one but easier to use. I'm not a fan of Reason's vector based automation but I guess it might have improved since I last used it.

3. VCAs.

4. Ara support. With Melodyne built in in the Pro version, S1 is an amazing vocal editor.

5. Mastering mode.

6. Low latency mode, Studio One uses double buffering where you can get much lower latencies than most other DAWS.

7. Track Transform . s1 version of freezing audio which Reason lacks.



Studio One is not as in depth as Reaper for Audio but it makes up for it by being much easier to use as Reaper can do most of Studio Ones audio functions (and more) but with a higher learning curve.

[JackJackdaw]

I’m looking forward to see what R13 brings. I would love to see some QoL improvements as much as anyone but it’s not like they totally don’t deliver on these, it’s just slow going. My projects are always really small arrangements and experiments, the environment is really creative for me. If I was into heavy weight production I wouldn’t use Reason. I also use Cubase and the stuff it can do is incredible, sometimes I need some of that stuff , but often i don’t and it’s overkill.

[apoclypse]

Studio One definitely has a better audio workflow.

I completely disagree with that. I find that an absurd claim to be frank.

S1 runs circles around Reason when it comes to audio and that's just on features alone. When it comes to workflow it's not even a contest. There is very little (if anything) that Reason can do in-terms of audio workflow that S1 doesn't do better.

[jens]

In my opinion Reason wipes the floor with Studio One when it comes to dealing with AUDIO, but tbh I don't see the point in discussing this with someone who considers automation, freezing, creating sends and what not "audio workflow".

Studio One is a huge pain in the arse when it comes to audio because its take-management is one sad mess, so until they fix that there's no way I'd ever recommend it for audio-recording to anyone; not even if I hated the guts of that person.

But yeah: ARA - that's certainly a very good point and its lack is the uhm... reason I stopped using Reason.


Workflow? Well, mate, that totally depends on yours. But you are of course utterly wrong when you claim Reason had nothing to offer that S1 doesn't do at least as well - did you even ever use Reason as a DAW? Because if you did that would make your claim even more absurd&inexcuseable. (Cause just plain wrong - and obviously so)

Just for starters:

- Reason has a tuner directly on each audio-track

- Reason's comp-editor has its own individual zoom- and snap-settings

- Reason has a built-in very good pitch-editor

[apoclypse]

In my opinion Reason wipes the floor with Studio One when it comes to dealing with AUDIO, but tbh I don't see the point in discussing this with someone who considers automation, freezing, creating sends and what not "audio workflow".

Studio One is a huge pain in the arse when it comes to audio because its take-management is one sad mess, so until they fix that there's no way I'd ever recommend it for audio-recording to anyone; not even if I hated the guts of that person.

But yeah: ARA - that's certainly a very good point and its lack is the uhm... reason I stopped using Reason.


Workflow? Well, mate, that totally depends on yours. But you are of course utterly wrong when you claim Reason had nothing to offer that S1 doesn't do at least as well - did you even ever use Reason as a DAW? Because if you did that would make your claim even more absurd&inexcuseable. (Cause just plain wrong - and obviously so)

Just for starters:

- Reason has a tuner directly on each audio-track

- Reason's comp-editor has its own individual zoom- and snap-settings

- Reason has a built-in very good pitch-editor

Look at my signature homie. I've been a Reason user since 2.5. Bought Record when it came out and upgraded to 6 when Record got renamed to Reason. I'm more than familiar with Reason and moved away from it specifically because its audio features are clunky to use compared to not just Studio One but almost every other DAW I own (except maybe Bitwig and Ableton, imo).

Workflow wise S1 audio is not only more fully featured but overall just easier to use with less issues (again imo).

- Tuner on each audio track. S1 has a tuner device and since S1 has those compact mixer views I can see the tuner directly in the mixer. So I don't see why this is some kind of plus for Reason. Throw a tuner on a channel, or better yet use a Track Preset that has everything you need ready to go.

- Zoom and Snap. That's cool. S1 has individual Bend/Warp marker per take/layer. I find that far more useful. In Reason if you are in comp mode you can't edit or manipulate slice markers, you can't do much of anything really but comping. S1 let's me do pretty much all other functions

- Having a built-in pitch editor is nice but S1 has Melodyne built right in via ARA for everyone so I don't see this asa plus as imo nothing beats or is as good as Melodyne.

If those are the only 3 things you can think of then I'm sorry that's just not good enough compared to what S1 can do.

S1 - Strip Silence, Groove from audio (don't need to convert to Rex file then convert to a ReGroove template), Bend marker threshold controls (you get none in Reason, other than manually deleting slice markers). That's just the rudimentary stuff.

S1 - Detect and Extract Chords from audio. Have all audio follow the chords tracks. Tab to transient. I have even talked about macros which make working with audio even easier. Like Align Transients that lets me align transients with another audio file, or close gap, or cut to cursor. All things you would need to do manually (and tediously) in Reason.

S1 - Slip Editing

S1 - I can elect to contagious clips and edit the end and start of both at the same time.


As for workflow the whole Edit mode thing imo is just too slow for me. I despise having to go in and out of a mode because the Reason devs are to stubborn to realize that a separate Edit window is actually a better workflow vs going in and out of modes. Another gripe is the zoom behavior. I use a Mac and the trackpad, I pinch to zoom. It works like garbage in Reason, that slows audio editing down significantly for me. S1 has Pinch to Zoom that works great. I don't know how Reason Mac users deal with it but it frustrates me so much. I know there is some hammerspoon script out there but with all the other things I mentioned it's not worth the effort nor do I think a modern Mac app should require that.

There is a lot more S1 can do that I haven't even touched on. I'm sure you like Reason's tools but they are in no way shape or form better (IMO) than S1 if you are editing and working with audio daily. If take recording is all that matters to you then sure, maybe that's a tad better in Reason, but the inflexibility otherwise makes it a chore to use.

[Atlatnesiti]

Any news on R13?

Good question
Seems like this thread was derailed by S1 fanboys
Can we get back on track with the topic pls…

[D-Fusion]

No rush

I will stay on V12 if the update does have the same minor changes that we saw from V10-11-12 and no Soundpacks or RE as a bandage will help since i have more than i ever need in vst and RE's + V12 Works great.