ArtsAcoustic Reverb 1.6.0 released

[ObsoleteAcc99]

So can people who bought second hand not even have the option of a fee to pay for the update? Or shouldn't the 50 euro fee cover this?

[sqigls]

So can people who bought second hand not even have the option of a fee to pay for the update? Or shouldn't the 50 euro fee cover this?

These policies make me want to not support Arts Acoustic.

License transfers are not THAT difficult to do, and to make people suffer this much is just shooting yourself in the foot. Why put your followers through all this?

A 50 euro fee is PLENTY enough (outlandish in my opinion) to transfer a license and not have the license change status or value. Very very lame. Everyone with license should be entitled to the 64bit version, think about the word of mouth advertising, if so many people are pissed of with your policies, WHO is going to support your company?

[don1thedon]

AA I'm sure you guys are busy with the release but it would really help to clarify the position on transfered licenses rather than let us make our own assumptions.

[mellotronaut]

AA I'm sure you guys are busy with the release but it would really help to clarify the position on transfered licenses rather than let us make our own assumptions.

indeed, i haven't even got a reply to my email reply.
i bought my second hand license in 2009, long before the new license policy came in the end of 2012. i wouldn't have bought it under these circumstances. AA assured in the transfer email, i'd get updates and if something changed, they would send a note. fact is: i didn't get a new serial email, not even a note. only when i sent an email, they told me, i was not entitled to get 1.6 update, because of my second hand license.
But i got my second hand license under different conditions. the only limitation was, it was nfr and i didn't/don't have a problem with it, because i love AA Reverb.
And i paid for AA Reverb, not the full price and not to the devs, but to the former owner and they allowed the transfer and assured, i'll get updates etc. etc. etc.
so this is another call for fairness: please let second hand owners of AA get updates!
it's for the sake of your company too: you'll keep customers and get back your former reputation, which is at least slightly damaged now.

Chris aka mello

[ChiTown24]

AA I'm sure you guys are busy with the release but it would really help to clarify the position on transfered licenses rather than let us make our own assumptions.

indeed, i haven't even got a reply to my email reply.
i bought my second hand license in 2009, long before the new license policy came in the end of 2012. i wouldn't have bought it under these circumstances. AA assured in the transfer email, i'd get updates and if something changed, they would send a note. fact is: i didn't get a new serial email, not even a note. only when i sent an email, they told me, i was not entitled to get 1.6 update, because of my second hand license.
But i got my second hand license under different conditions. the only limitation was, it was nfr and i didn't/don't have a problem with it, because i love AA Reverb.
And i paid for AA Reverb, not the full price and not to the devs, but to the former owner and they allowed the transfer and assured, i'll get updates etc. etc. etc.
so this is another call for fairness: please let second hand owners of AA get updates!
it's for the sake of your company too: you'll keep customers and get back your former reputation, which is at least slightly damaged now.

Chris aka mello

I dunno man. I don't think you should exercise 'nuclear' tactics like publishing emails until all diplomatic efforts have failed. it seems you were, imo, far too quick to publish their emails to you. I can't say I'm surprised that they are reluctant to reply any further given you're likely to just publish it on some forums.. mid-negotiation. It's not clever, and it's pretty rude/crass trying to solicit public pressure in that fashion which in the end may be counter-productive. I mean to say, I'm not saying who's right or wrong, but publishing emails in the middle of negotiations is rarely going to work in your favour... I think you've put them in a difficult no-win position.

I guess Arts Acoustic are one of those companies that felt stung by the now legendary EU legislation on software license transfers, and they're using the letter of that Law to their perceived advantage. That is to say, you can transfer the license, but that doesn't necessarily entitle you to future support.

I feel sorry for both parties {used-licenser owners, and AA}, and would hope this came to an amicable ending without dirty 'dirty-laundry' tactics. Certainly, I don't think it would be out-of-the-question to charge used-licensees a nominal fee for the update. Free would be better of course.

as for the greater topic of license transfers & NFR licenses etc, well, the EU legislation isn't all roses and some devs may be forced to adapt in ways 'worse' than the old status quo. Subscription models come to mind, but that shit will never fly... I digress.

Good luck. if there's a reverb worth the hassle, it's AAR.

[mellotronaut]

AA I'm sure you guys are busy with the release but it would really help to clarify the position on transfered licenses rather than let us make our own assumptions.

indeed, i haven't even got a reply to my email reply.
i bought my second hand license in 2009, long before the new license policy came in the end of 2012. i wouldn't have bought it under these circumstances. AA assured in the transfer email, i'd get updates and if something changed, they would send a note. fact is: i didn't get a new serial email, not even a note. only when i sent an email, they told me, i was not entitled to get 1.6 update, because of my second hand license.
But i got my second hand license under different conditions. the only limitation was, it was nfr and i didn't/don't have a problem with it, because i love AA Reverb.
And i paid for AA Reverb, not the full price and not to the devs, but to the former owner and they allowed the transfer and assured, i'll get updates etc. etc. etc.
so this is another call for fairness: please let second hand owners of AA get updates!
it's for the sake of your company too: you'll keep customers and get back your former reputation, which is at least slightly damaged now.

Chris aka mello

I dunno man. I don't think you should exercise 'nuclear' tactics like publishing emails until all diplomatic efforts have failed. it seems you were, imo, far too quick to publish their emails to you. I can't say I'm surprised that they are reluctant to reply any further given you're likely to just publish it on some forums.. mid-negotiation. It's not clever, and it's pretty rude/crass trying to solicit public pressure in that fashion which in the end may be counter-productive. I mean to say, I'm not saying who's right or wrong, but publishing emails in the middle of negotiations is rarely going to work in your favour... I think you've put them in a difficult no-win position.

I guess Arts Acoustic are one of those companies that felt stung by the now legendary EU legislation on software license transfers, and they're using the letter of that Law to their perceived advantage. That is to say, you can transfer the license, but that doesn't necessarily entitle you to future support.

I feel sorry for both parties {used-licenser owners, and AA}, and would hope this came to an amicable ending without dirty 'dirty-laundry' tactics. Certainly, I don't think it would be out-of-the-question to charge used-licensees a nominal fee for the update. Free would be better of course.

as for the greater topic of license transfers & NFR licenses etc, well, the EU legislation isn't all roses and some devs may be forced to adapt in ways 'worse' than the old status quo. Subscription models come to mind, but that shit will never fly... I digress.

Good luck. if there's a reverb worth the hassle, it's AAR.

you blame me for my 'nuclear' tactics? you put things upside down. the cited emails don't have any private content. there is one statement, every second hand license owner got and a reply, every second hand license owner got, when he or she asked for the 1.6 update. no wikileaks at all.

[ChiTown24]

Not really trying to comment on the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of their current policy.
Just saying it's not that clever publishing their personal emails to you, as soon as you get them, simultaneous to your attempts at negotiating a less expensive {or free} update deal for yourself {and possibly others}. by all means, approach the situation any way you want, but at least don't act incredulous when they appear reticent now that you've established you'll be publishing their emails to you as soon as you receive them.

no one likes to concede to such tactics, but maybe they will. at any rate it's the hand you've played and I'm sympathetic to your situation, so best of luck to you.

just got an email response from AA:

Hallo Christian,
....

[PeteS]

After following the instructions as stated and opening Cubase Artist 6.5.4
crashed, i've treid everything, even treid re-installing vers1.5 and that doesnt work either, i would really like some help even if it is to get the older version running
PS original licence

[sonicpowa]

-- i got my second hand license under different conditions --
-- AA assured in the transfer email, i'd get updates and if something changed, they would send a note --

I think these are the key words and you should get updates (if they didn't send a note about changing their policy reasonable time before the new v1.6 policy, not in the same day or week).

Situation could have been different with version 2.0 (updates/upgrades)

[mellotronaut]

Not really trying to comment on the 'rights' & 'wrongs' of their current policy.
Just saying it's not that clever publishing their personal emails to you, as soon as you get them, simultaneous to your attempts at negotiating a less expensive {or free} update deal for yourself {and possibly others}. by all means, approach the situation any way you want, but at least don't act incredulous when they appear reticent now that you've established you'll be publishing their emails to you as soon as you receive them.

no one likes to concede to such tactics, but maybe they will. at any rate it's the hand you've played and I'm sympathetic to your situation, so best of luck to you.

just got an email response from AA:

Hallo Christian,
....

if it was something personal, i wouldn't have issued it. i could have cited it instead, but it doesn't make a difference. important was and is: the manner, they treated customers with second hand licenses, wasn't nice. the didn't even follow their own agreements e.g. send notes to the customers in case of changes. now i have a software, i can use in 32 bit, but not in 64 bit and who knows, how many osx upgrades it'll survive. it would have been fine and nice and correct, if they told us second hand owners in december 2012: "you won't get the next update for free, because there is a lot of work in it and we haven't got any money from you yet. there will be a reasonable fee (20€)for one month and then it will be 50€ like our new transfer fee." almost perfect. ... but they didn't.


Thank you for your sympathy to my/our situation.

[mellotronaut]

-- i got my second hand license under different conditions --
-- AA assured in the transfer email, i'd get updates and if something changed, they would send a note --

I think these are the key words and you should get updates (if they didn't send a note about changing their policy reasonable time before the new v1.6 policy, not in the same day or week).

Situation could have been different with version 2.0 (updates/upgrades)

thank you! this is my point.

edit: and now?

[Qatok]

Hello, with latest 1.6 version, Reaper always crashing at startup, and the plugin never shows in plugins list. I did try both x32 and x64 version, also the demo version, nothing seems to help. It was all fine with 1.5 version before! Plese fix this!

[tenshin111]

Hello,
Why do we charge 50.00 EUR/USD for the license transfer
The cost for a license transfer might seem a little high, but in fact it hardly covers our internal costs.

This is the biggest pile of crap I have read in recent days.

50.00 EUR hardly covers "internal costs for a license transfer"...yeah, sure.

[mellotronaut]

it's a week now without a reply from AA in their own forum. i'm more than confused about this kind of head-in-the-sand politics. is it so difficult to discuss a custumer unfriendly license policy with customers? is it so difficult to tell people, when bugs will be fixed?
i apologise here for citing email contents directly, if this is a reason for not being more helpful. i did it only to give a detailed picture of my/our problem as a second hand owner, who owned a license, before the new policy was installed.
the worst thing is, i like this reverb a lot, but i have to begin to substitute it with other plug ins, because i'm a slow worker and sometimes i open a sketch again years after its first recording.

[Mushy Mushy]

Maybe Lennard's working for AA now.