New MPE synths...

[SteveElbows]

Thanks for the info about the moDllz module, I didnt know about that one and you are right that the cc74 etc issue with the built in module is a pain (I tried asking to get that changed during dev of 1.0 but there were so many other priorities for the VCV developer by that stage, and a lack of in depth MPE use case knowledge).

My initial point really was that the old module mentioned in Rogers excellent software guide was stuck in VCVs past so I'm so pleased that you've identified a different solution. Since having to go on about the caveats of the built in Midi-CV module in MPE mode would be a poor fit with Rogers understandable desire for clear and short instructions and some confidence that the MPE implementation is actually useable.

On that note regarding instructions:

The moDllz modules are available via the main VCV Library. (Library menu then 'Manage plugins')

The manual for this set of modules is here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12kjCLS ... eQ0ot/view

The nature of VCV in general means that users are going to be expecting to do more setup and work, since its a modular environment, so getting into too much detail about how to use MPE seems fairly inevitable, so thanks also for the example Init patch!

[tiantong]

ShockWave a Semi-Modular Synth Module designed for modular-style sound design and sonic exploration for iPad.
http://numericalaudio.com/shockwave/

Monophonic with MPE support. Sounds amazing so far.

[Roger_Linn]

It's a monophonic synth, so it can't be MPE (midi polyphonic expression). Their site states "MPE MIDI (Single Channel)" which makes no sense, so they don't understand what MPE means and it's not an MPE synth.

[tiantong]

It's a monophonic synth, so it can't be MPE (midi polyphonic expression). Their site states "MPE MIDI (Single Channel)" which makes no sense, so they don't understand what MPE means and it's not an MPE synth.

Noted!
I wondered but was also enchanted by what I could hear.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Icarus 2 is arriving at 6. dec, being MPE capable.

[mrspiral]

I noticed that the BeepStreet iOS apps have been removed from the list. This is a bummer, but expected... I have been trying to find any reference to MPE in either Sunrizer's or Zeeon's docs or layout and can't. Oh well. I wrote to the developer and will see what answer I get.

EDIT: Jarek from BeepStreet just got back to me. He says that MPE in Zeeon is a planned upgrade that should be available soon. Woohoo!

[tiantong]

I noticed that the BeepStreet iOS apps have been removed from the list. This is a bummer, but expected... I have been trying to find any reference to MPE in either Sunrizer's or Zeeon's docs or layout and can't. Oh well. I wrote to the developer and will see what answer I get.

EDIT: Jarek from BeepStreet just got back to me. He says that MPE in Zeeon is a planned upgrade that should be available soon. Woohoo!

That’s good news. Zeeon is a really nice iOS synth.

[Reckon104]

I did want point something out to folks here, not sure if this is the thread to do it on but here goes. As far as I know, the only Kontakt instruments that have been set up to facilitate mpe without having to open up multis, are the Orange Tree guitar samples. All you have to do is open up one instance in "omni" mode, and you're good to go. This makes things substantially easier for obvious reasons. They made that announcement a while back specifically to appeal to folks like us. I know most people on this board don't use samples much, but these are very good ones if you want straight ahead guitar sounds and with that "mpe" update work great with the Linnstrument. Just thought I'd throw that out there anyway.

[Echoes in the Attic]

It's a monophonic synth, so it can't be MPE (midi polyphonic expression). Their site states "MPE MIDI (Single Channel)" which makes no sense, so they don't understand what MPE means and it's not an MPE synth.

Huh? Audio modeling instruments are monophonic for the most part and they are MPE compatible. You have videos of them being used with linnstrument. Plus lots of Equator and Cypher sounds are monophonic in MPE mode. I don't know enough about the synth you are talking about but does it otherwise conform to the MPE protocol? For example 48 note up/down bend range, using midi channel 2 etc, things that would make it work in MPE mode in a compatible DAW? This is very useful for mono sounds because you can draw the note pitch on the note itself, for example in Bitwig. Or draw the timbre and pressure curves right there attached to the note. Much better than separate editors. But requires timbre and pressure modulation sources in the instrument. I don't think it matters that the word polyphony is in the name, that just means that the protocol allows for separate expressions for note, it shouldn't mean it must use polyphony. So many of the most useful sounds from MPE are mono like the audio modeling sounds and respiro, things that have a lot of expression attached with a single note.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I did want point something out to folks here, not sure if this is the thread to do it on but here goes. As far as I know, the only Kontakt instruments that have been set up to facilitate mpe without having to open up multis, are the Orange Tree guitar samples. All you have to do is open up one instance in "omni" mode, and you're good to go. This makes things substantially easier for obvious reasons. They made that announcement a while back specifically to appeal to folks like us. I know most people on this board don't use samples much, but these are very good ones if you want straight ahead guitar sounds and with that "mpe" update work great with the Linnstrument. Just thought I'd throw that out there anyway.

When did this happen? So within a single kontakt instrument it takes input from all channels and plays a different channel for each note? Do hammer-ons/offs still work?

[Roger_Linn]

As far as I know, the only Kontakt instruments that have been set up to facilitate mpe without having to open up multis, are the Orange Tree guitar samples. All you have to do is open up one instance in "omni" mode, and you're good to go.

Hi Steve,
I understand that Orange Tree has their “Polybend” feature that permits polyphonic pitch bends, but they give no explanation of how to use it on their site. How do you set up LinnStrument for this? I assume you use Channel Per Note, correct? And what Bend Range? Given that their samples are all plucked strings, I assume they ignore pressure. But they do permit different pick positions; can you use Y-axis (cc74) for this, even if it isn’t polyphonic or continuous?

[Roger_Linn]

Huh? Audio modeling instruments are monophonic for the most part and they are MPE compatible. You have videos of them being used with linnstrument. Plus lots of Equator and Cypher sounds are monophonic in MPE mode.

Audio Modeling’s instruments are not MPE, but rather they are monophonic single-channel instruments that are optimized for 3D expressive control, having been designed for expressive wind controllers like EWI or EVI. Also, nearly all one-channel synths can be set up similarly for expressive 3D monophonic voice control. (I discuss this at the top of the Recommended Sounds page.) For example, any subtractive synth can set up so that pressure controls note volume, pitch bend controls pitch, and y-axis (usually cc74) controls waveform timbre in some way. This gives you a monophonic expressive voice, or chords (as on any MIDI piano keyboard) but with 3D expression on only one voice at a time.

MPE is something different. It gives you fully independent and simultaneous 3D expression on all notes that you are playing simultaneously. For example, on LinnStrument you can perform pitch slides on different rows with different slide amounts or directions. You can learn more about MPE on my site on the “What is MPE?” page, accessed from the LinnStrument Support page.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Huh? Audio modeling instruments are monophonic for the most part and they are MPE compatible. You have videos of them being used with linnstrument. Plus lots of Equator and Cypher sounds are monophonic in MPE mode.

Audio Modeling’s instruments are not MPE, but rather they are monophonic single-channel instruments that are optimized for 3D expressive control, having been designed for expressive wind controllers like EWI or EVI. Also, nearly all one-channel synths can be set up similarly for expressive 3D monophonic voice control. (I discuss this at the top of the Recommended Sounds page.) For example, any subtractive synth can set up so that pressure controls note volume, pitch bend controls pitch, and y-axis (usually cc74) controls waveform timbre in some way. This gives you a monophonic expressive voice, or chords (as on any MIDI piano keyboard) but with 3D expression on only one voice at a time.

Are you sure about Audio Modeling being single channel only? In my DAW, I am sending MPE rotating channels to the cello and it is responding perfectly. If it were used in single channel mode, I would not be able to use the per note expression editing in Bitwig, such as pitch bend attached to each note, or timbre etc. I would have to use the channel pitch bend editor which is very clumsy for trying to bend to specific notes. So being able to use per note expression midi editing is only possible with rotating midi channels. At least that's the case in Bitwig, not sure how other DAWs handle it. That's the important part of my quote you left out there.

MPE is something different. It gives you fully independent and simultaneous 3D expression on all notes that you are playing simultaneously. For example, on LinnStrument you can perform pitch slides on different rows with different slide amounts or directions. You can learn more about MPE on my site on the “What is MPE?” page, accessed from the LinnStrument Support page.

As an owner of a linnstrument, a seaboard rise and a seaboard block, I'm pretty familiar with MPE. Actually I was just doing some testing and advising on a beta for a synth implementing MPE compatibility. I personally think the 3D/5D vs MPE terminology is a bit confusing, especially for developers. People seem to be interpreting it differently, especially when it comes to how to handle monophonic stuff. I've actually been meaning to write a separate thread about this, which I will do so as not to derail this thread since I think it's a longer conversation.

[Reckon104]

I did want point something out to folks here, not sure if this is the thread to do it on but here goes. As far as I know, the only Kontakt instruments that have been set up to facilitate mpe without having to open up multis, are the Orange Tree guitar samples. All you have to do is open up one instance in "omni" mode, and you're good to go. This makes things substantially easier for obvious reasons. They made that announcement a while back specifically to appeal to folks like us. I know most people on this board don't use samples much, but these are very good ones if you want straight ahead guitar sounds and with that "mpe" update work great with the Linnstrument. Just thought I'd throw that out there anyway.

When did this happen? So within a single kontakt instrument it takes input from all channels and plays a different channel for each note? Do hammer-ons/offs still work?

Not sure exactly when it happened. I think it was announced in an email and then it was necessary to download and replace files in the individual instruments. Yes, you simply have to open up 1 instance in "omni" mode and it plays however many channels you have set up in the LS. And I don't believe it loses any functionality in this mode.

As far as I know, the only Kontakt instruments that have been set up to facilitate mpe without having to open up multis, are the Orange Tree guitar samples. All you have to do is open up one instance in "omni" mode, and you're good to go.

Hi Steve,
I understand that Orange Tree has their “Polybend” feature that permits polyphonic pitch bends, but they give no explanation of how to use it on their site. How do you set up LinnStrument for this? I assume you use Channel Per Note, correct? And what Bend Range? Given that their samples are all plucked strings, I assume they ignore pressure. But they do permit different pick positions; can you use Y-axis (cc74) for this, even if it isn’t polyphonic or continuous?

Roger, because bending and sliding in those instruments are really all I care about relative to mpe implentation, I haven't even explored other control options (and may have incorrectly remembered the degree of polyphonic control that their implementation offers now). Even still, I would assume you could use cc74 in the way you are asking about, even if it isn't polyphonic (I am away from my music computer so can't check right now). However, they do offer a 24 pb range (which is rare for kontakt libraries as you well know). And yes, you use channel per note. Hope this helps!

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks, Steve (reckon). Yes, that’s very helpful.