Theory Question: Which blues scale over which key?

[soulata]

The other thing was, I play C, Eb, F# and A blues scales over C blues. That was the first half of my text.

[Hink]

Easy...

Let's say you're playing over C7:
- Most often you'd play C blues scale (C, Eb, F, Gb, G, Bb)
- A blues scale works ok, especially the E and Eb notes which are your minor and major 3rd in C7
- Eb and F# blues scales would work as well, if you know how to use them


@Hink, I wouldn't say that the blues scale is minor pentatonic + dim. 5th (although I see your point). In my classes minor pentatonic means C, D, Eb, G, A...or even C, D, Eb, G, Ab. not to say you're wrong or I'm right or anything, it's a different system of thinking, nah, categorising.

k

Well a minor pentatonic is 1 (root), b3, 4, 5, b7 the scale popularly called the blues scale is 1, b3, 4, b5, 5 b7, which is just what I said and an easy way to remember it...I'm speaking in intervals and a formula that works across an octave no matter what key....I'm not sure what key you thinking about, I might be wrong but neither you mention is either a major or minor pentatonic

I'm just saying that C, Eb, F, G, Bb is one way of describing minor pentatonic, but (theoretically) that's only Eb major pentatonic played from the parallel minor (aka C).

The "real" C minor pentatonic would be C, D, Eb, G, A. I don't expect we'll agree, though it's just another way of looking at things.

now back to blues

Okay, according to my version of a minor pentatonic scale Cm is (or Eb maj pentatonic as you stated) C, Eb, F, G, Bb, which is the "relative" minor of Eb maj...add a Gb between the F and G and that's your blues scale for they key of C...did yah make a mistake on that A? Because other than that we agree 100%...

[egbert]

Easy...

Let's say you're playing over C7:
- Most often you'd play C blues scale (C, Eb, F, Gb, G, Bb)
- A blues scale works ok, especially the E and Eb notes which are your minor and major 3rd in C7
- Eb and F# blues scales would work as well, if you know how to use them


@Hink, I wouldn't say that the blues scale is minor pentatonic + dim. 5th (although I see your point). In my classes minor pentatonic means C, D, Eb, G, A...or even C, D, Eb, G, Ab. not to say you're wrong or I'm right or anything, it's a different system of thinking, nah, categorising.

Pentatonic scales are stacks of fourths as the other poster has said.

[NAD]

I couldn't bear to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said. The simple answer is if you're playing in a major scale, you're best off playing the blues scale of the corresponding minor key, e.g. if you're in C major you'd be playing an A blues scale (A, C, D, Eb, E, G). Notice the Eb also acts as the minor third of your C major scale and makes for much bending madness.

Blues is indeed all about soul but it doesn't hurt at all to have some theoretical knowledge and to practice as much as you can!

[shanecgriffo]

i was given a sheet when i studied jazz (diploma)and it had all the uses for pentatonic scales over all sorts of chords , cant remember them offhand but if i find the sheet i'll post them .. there were some interesting and unusual choices.

[Hink]

I couldn't bear to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said. The simple answer is if you're playing in a major scale, you're best off playing the blues scale of the corresponding minor key, e.g. if you're in C major you'd be playing an A blues scale (A, C, D, Eb, E, G). Notice the Eb also acts as the minor third of your C major scale and makes for much bending madness.

Blues is indeed all about soul but it doesn't hurt at all to have some theoretical knowledge and to practice as much as you can!

since you missed it before...as I said.. 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7... that's the easiest way to remember the blues scale...minor pentatonic with an added deminished 5th...than you go with your soul from there...

[NAD]

since you missed it before...as I said..

I couldn't bear to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said.

And forgive me for quoting myself, I know it's pretentious.

than you go with your soul from there...

Provided you have one....

[egbert]

than you go with your soul from there...

Provided you have one....

I think the undead would prefer metal.

[Peel]

I couldn't bear to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said. The simple answer is if you're playing in a major scale, you're best off playing the blues scale of the corresponding minor key, e.g. if you're in C major you'd be playing an A blues scale (A, C, D, Eb, E, G).

Well, it's a simple answer but I'm pretty confident that a healthy majority of musicians would say that using the blues scale built from the I (C blues) is the best single answer. Building from the relative minor is a very satisfying and bluesy sound, too, though, with a lot of character; it's AKA the major blues scale (1 2 b3 3 5 6 from the I). It has more of a country-blues or bluegrass sound compared to the (minor) blues scale (1 b3 4 b5 5 b7).

[egbert]

Part of the bluescale thing is the clash of the non scale tones against the major chords. In the key of C you have:

1) the Eb against the E in C Ma or C7 and
2) the Bb against the B in the Gma or G7 chord.
3) the flat fifth (F# ) against all three chords

In the bluescale you have all the sevenths and all the root notes but none of the thirds of the I, IV and V.

A million guitarists who have never played a major third in their lives have done the pentatonic minor to death so being aware of the changes you are playing over and using the blue notes as a flavouring rather than the main course is not a bad idea too.
If you know where you are in the chord cycle you can use the chord tones including the major thirds (E A and B) in your phrases to good effect.

The D in that key is a useful note too - 5th of the V chord and the 6th and 9th of the IV and I chords respectively.

There are some pretty useful auxilliary bluescales to use - Try an ascending run up an octave or more on this one over a C blues:

C D Eb E F F# G A Bb B C

Try flying up that run on a keyboard ( finger it 123, 123, 123,1234, 123 etc).

The Myxolydian mode [C D E F G A Bb C] is the standard scale for dominant 7th type chords so it makes a useful alternate scale to break the pentatonic monotony.

A couple of other scales you might find useful: the lydian dominant mode [C D E F# G A Bb C] is a mode of the melodic minor scale (works well over 7th chords with the raised 11th or when you want to add that blue tone over a seventh chord ) as is the super locrian mode [C Db Eb E F Gb Ab Bb C] which is also called the altered scale and this last is usually played over C7 Alt = C7 #/b9 #/b5.

[NAD]

Well, it's a simple answer but I'm pretty confident that a healthy majority of musicians would say that using the blues scale built from the I (C blues) is the best single answer.

Sure.... A healthy majority of "musicians" is also still stuck on Stairway to Heaven and Wish You Were Here....

[mistertoast]

egbert, that was a great response. I wondered when someone would throw a mode or two at me.

What I want is a sort of emotional dictionary. I've seen such a thing for various chord extensions. This one is "spooky," that one is "tragic." Obviously, such things are generalizations. Minor keys are supposed to be "sad," but there are plenty of upbeat dance songs in minor keys.

[goldbaker]

Blues theory is a little more complex than playing a pentatonic scale. What you play has to do with the mood you are looking for.

If you're in a happy (C-major) mood, you'll likely be playing C, D, E, G, A, Bb when the C chord is playing, C, D, Eb, F, G, A when the F chord is playing, and D, E, F, G, A, B, when the G chord is playing. This is sort of a jump blues feel.

If you're in a more traditionally bluesy mood, you can play the straight minor pentatonic, but be careful about which notes you come to rest on -- a sustained, unbent Eb won't sound too good over a C major chord and a sustained Bb won't sound too good over a G chord, but they work fine as passing notes or you can bend up from them.

The minor pentatonic scale also works fine over minor blues chord progressions (e.g. Cm Fm Cm Cm Fm Fm Cm Cm Ab7 G7 Cm)

A lot of blues that you hear uses the relative scale (C,D,E,G,A), with the D or A bent up for a bluesy feel.

If you're getting into jazzier blues, then you obviously need to watch the chord progressions a lot more carefully -- but I think this is beyond where we're going here.

How much did the old time blues guitar players think about this? Some knew their theory very well (BB King, Freddie King), others just knew the basics from experience. Many of the old time finger pickers (as noted above) were playing in some form of open tuning, and didn't even read music.

In general, though, I think it's more myth than fact about blues players just playing what they feel. They were all smarter than people give them credit for.

[Hink]

since you missed it before...as I said..

I couldn't bear to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said.

And forgive me for quoting myself, I know it's pretentious.

than you go with your soul from there...

Provided you have one....

I think you mis-read my intentions, I hope you didn't take it as a flame of your post...it wasn't in any way. You said that you hadn't read the whole thread (which I don't blame you), I was agreeing with what you said an explaining how I put it earlier, that's all

[mistertoast]

>>The simple answer is if you're playing in a major scale, you're best off playing the blues scale of the corresponding minor key...

The thing was, I wasn't looking for the simple answer at all. I was looking for the dificult answer.

With the major scale alone, there's twelve possible answers. That's assuming you keep all the chords diatonic.