KVR Audio

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:14 pm

yes, with a different sound it might work...

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:15 pm

Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if you're asking for the basic pop song structure, the format is:
Intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, intro or "middle 8", chorus, chorus, outro...

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:17 pm

deastman wrote:Forgive me if this is too obvious, but if you're asking for the basic pop song structure, the format is:
Intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, intro or "middle 8", chorus, chorus, outro...

And if you want to get even more basic:

32 bars of AABA.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:22 pm

Well I guess I meant what is the common way of moving from chord to chord as opposed to simple instructions like verse/chorus/verse. I know I mentioned these, but the music I'm making doesn't really have that kind of layout I don't think. Its more like "trippy bit/hardcore bit/drum focus/epic metal bit/" .. more descriptive I guess.

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:35 pm

Then you're asking about chord progressions, right?

If so: keep your chords connected. The most common chord progression is I, IV, V. In C Major this would be: C Major chord, F Major chord, G Major chord, then it resolves at the C Major chord. Notice how they're all Major chords? And notice how the note G is in both the C Major and G Major chords? Yas.

Chords can change anytime you want them to.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:40 pm

I know about major scales are the assosciate chord assignments. Grr.. I don't even know what I'm asking my brain is that mashed.

Basically I struggled to get away from an idea. Like I'll come up with a riff, and I fall into a trap of just repeating that same riff over and over. Bands I like seem to be able to go from riff to riff with ease and fluidity. Is that just down to talent and experience, or is there something I haven't learnt???

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:42 pm

Oh, and thanks for having this discussion with me

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:48 pm

There doesn't seem to be anything you're lacking in the knowledge department. Just stop listening to your riff and continue working. I mean, that's really all that I can tell you. No one's going to tell you how to compose your songs.

There's also nothing wrong with repeating a riff for 2 minutes if you ask me, but I'm a huge fan of Philip Glass... so yeah.

And you're welcome. I'm not much help, though.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:50 pm

Ildon wrote:There doesn't seem to be anything you're lacking in the knowledge department. Just stop listening to your riff and continue working. I mean, that's really all that I can tell you. No one's going to tell you how to compose your songs.

There's also nothing wrong with repeating a riff for 2 minutes if you ask me, but I'm a huge fan of Philip Glass... so yeah.

And you're welcome. I'm not much help, though.

Well I like repeating riffs, I just get caught up in it. My own problem though I guess

Anyway if you're interested, I added some stuff:

some additions

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:54 pm

There'll always be an audience who like repetitive, linear music.

But see, I really like this kind of music. It's easy on the ears, easy to follow, and makes for good background music (but don't confuse this with MUZAK, which has no purpose.)

A lot of people equate dynamics and changes and stuff with skill and talent, and that's not necessarily true. It's more about taste and what your goals are than it is about talent (as Naoshi Mizuta and Kenji Ito have proven!)

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:01 am

Ildon wrote: A lot of people equate dynamics and changes and stuff with skill and talent, and that's not necessarily true. It's more about taste and what your goals are than it is about talent

Yeah I know, I'm living proof of that

Ildon · Post by **Ildon** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:03 am

It's all right. It's not true, though, and there're plenty of successful composers who write linear music. Just do what you like doing. Your stuff isn't nearly as repetitive and linear as a lot of music I've heard.

If your goal is to be dynamic with how you compose and to change things up a lot... then you've got a problem and need to knuckle down and workworkworkwork. Otherwise, just have fun doing what you like to do.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:08 am

Do you ever feel like you've spread yourself too thin?

Lately I've been feeling like I should've start playing instruments at a young age, I should've forced myself into music lessons. Because now I find it hard to actually sit down and learn something on an instrument. If you said to me "play me a G major scale" I probably couldn't do it perfectly. I've just never sat down and learnt my instruments well enough, and I'm finding that in all aspects of my life. I tend to jump over the "beginner" stages and get stranded in the intermediate stages, and thus my mediocreness is solidified.

Kinda gash to be in that position.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:09 am

Amberience wrote:Ok, so you've got a riff, it could be a simple as two bar chords arpeggiated, it doesn't matter. But where do you go from there? How do you know if something is a chorus and if something is a intro, and all that jazz.

Usually you will know by listening to it but its still up to you. By and large our choruses are musically more complex with fewer vocals and our verses are more vocal-intensive but we have songs which are the opposite of that, too. Sometimes we use the same riff in verse and chorus, sometimes transposed and sometimes just with more or less filler around it. We don't generally lock down a structure until we have lyrics written. Often that will illuminate your arrangement.

jens · Post by **jens** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:10 am

Amberience wrote:
Basically I struggled to get away from an idea. Like I'll come up with a riff, and I fall into a trap of just repeating that same riff over and over. Bands I like seem to be able to go from riff to riff with ease and fluidity. Is that just down to talent and experience, or is there something I haven't learnt???

dunno if it can be learned - if you'd send me an eXT-project of that song I could add another part.

I often add two or more parts together which do not seem to have aynthing in do with each other when you listen to them seperately yet when you listen to the whole song it just gels. That's because I hear a new part in the one I'm starting with. I listen to it and the music progresses in my head. Perhaps you just need to learn to listne to your inner ear.

You are a good musician - I think you should be able to achieve this.

How do you structure a song??