Convo Boy in Sonar

[Jason Brian Merrill]

Clicking the purchase button on the Convo Boy demo in Sonar 4 causes Sonar to crash, probably because of the VST wrapper.

another reason why it would be nice for Sonar to have real VST support

[headquest]

Thanks for the feedback. Will take a look again. Seems like I can't rely on continuity from one version to the next.

ALL the interfaces are working here in Audition 2.0, including Space Boy (which is the plug that I read about in an old CM magazine, which drew me to your site yesterday by the way - so the one I'm most interested in!)

I don't see how FreEq Boy should cause such problems in SONAR. It doesn't here.

Be aware that the demos of some of my plug-ins are quite old and don't contain all optimizations or features.

Having rebooted this morning, the problem persists. What happens is that once FreEQ Boy has been inserted on a track, the transport stops working. Toggling the plug on/off doesn't correct this except that when in the "off" position (in the fx bin) the transport works fine... until I switch it back to the "on" position.

I'm using SONAR version 5.2 and the latest version of the Cakewalk wrapper. The rest of the spec is as follows:

DELL Inspiron 9400 laptop, Intel Centrino CORE DUO 2.16 Ghz, Win XP (SP2), 100 Gb 7200rpm drive.

[headquest]

That's just host default GUI. Should still work. Just won't look as purdy.

Indeed. But it looks like Audition 1.5 colours to me . Did you say you are using Audition 2.0 Lagrange?

[OT - Hi Greg . Are you a fan of these plugs? I only discovered them yesterday, so just trying them out - some pretty good stuff here!]

[headquest]

... another reason why it would be nice for Sonar to have real VST support

I think you draw the wrong conclusion (possibly you're joking though?).

This is actually a problem any developer faces trying to ensure that a VST plugin works well in a whole variety of different host applications, some of which like Cubase offer VST "native support" (albeit, not the latest version!), others like SONAR admit to using a wrapper, while still others again use a wrapper but hide it (e.g. Audition, FL).

All hosts have difficulty with at least a few VSTs running properly - whether they include a wrapper or not - and their respective forums all contain numberous threads where users report VST compatibilities. For that matter I notice that on the Elevayta site under "known Issues" there are problems with these VSTs in a number of hosts - eXT and Bidule - that have "native" support, not just those using a wrapper.

[Space Boy]

there are problems with these VSTs in a number of hosts - eXT and Bidule - that have "native" support, not just those using a wrapper.

Not quite correct. If you read the information I provide for these host, it essentially describes how to use specific Elevayta plug-ins in eXT and Bidule. When some people don't know how to configure a tool, they often refer to it as a "problem". I offer a solution for the "problems" in eXT and Bidule by explaining how to use it in those hosts.

FYI There are a number of users that use eXT as a wrapper inside e.g. Audition or SONAR and then they load the "problematic" Elevayta plug-ins into eXT instead - this apparently works quite well.

In actual fact, there are very few problems for Elevayta plug-ins in the majority of hosts. Early on, both Audition and SONAR were problematic. I thought I had fixed that. And, as you can see by the screen shots below, both Convo Boy and FreEq Boy are working without problems in SONAR 5 on my PC. Convo Boy can open a load dialog while transport is running while FreEq Boy is also not causing problems.


http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... estzo1.jpg


http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... st1rc8.jpg

Again, I have to say that the demos I make available are very old versions and do not include all fixes. I am about to update these within the next few months. Also, there are many configuration parameters on both Audition and SONAR which have proven to be sensitive. I mention some of these in my FAQ. But, it is almost impossible for me to test every configuration of host software release, PC configuration and sound card architecture.

More recently, I upgraded my PC to a dual core 64-bit AMD (with Audigy 4 sound card and 2GB of memory) and I now use SONAR 5 as my primary testing host.

Paul

[headquest]

Thanks again for the information Paul

The thing with FreEQ not working here is strange given that it works for you. Obviously something else in the mix... I will ask on the Sonar forum. I did start a thread there asking who used Elevayta plugs (looking for recommendations) and had little response, although one or two people who hadn't come across your stuff took an interest, so hopefully you will get a few sales .

The truly odd thing is that the Cakewalk wrapped version of FreEQ works absolutely fine within Audition - as does the VST - just not in Sonar itself! I have repeated the test several times with the same results.

Audition seems to struggle with VSTs. I think version 2 is a little better than 1.5 was, but I still often resort to using the DX versions that have been scanned by the Cakewalk wrapper. This is the first time I have had a problem in Sonar itself. I'm not keen on using eXT as an additional wrapper, because it complicates things unnecessarily imho.

Anyway, having tested FreEQ and Wider Boy pto so far, I am very impressed with them (except for this Sonar issue). Over the next few days I will test the others, and quite likely buy 3 - 4 of them once I've made up my mind which. Wider Boy is already a sstrong contendor (FreEQ obviously less so at this point).

I hope you don't mind if I post any further questions here when I try the others? Or should I start a different thread?

[Space Boy]

I hope you don't mind if I post any further questions here when I try the others? Or should I start a different thread?

That's what the forum is for

Cheers

Paul

[ObsoleteAcc99]

This is bad news for Sonar that I am almost certain I am purchasng soon.

I rely on Elevayta quite a bit and all the "workarounds" are devastating...like uncheck use delay comp..i cant work without delay comp! Or use ext as a wrapper...again, then the delay comp wont be reported!! rasise latency above 10ms..NEVER!!!

There must be another way!

[headquest]

You'll be pleased to know that they are working better now. I changed the aud.ini file in Sonar as suggeseted on the Elevayta site, which has freed up the transport bar issue. Now they seem to be working fine (although I did manage to crash the PC when I stacked up too many of them at once! ).

So you're returning to Sonar, ttoz?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

You'll be pleased to know that they are working better now. I changed the aud.ini file in Sonar as suggeseted on the Elevayta site, which has freed up the transport bar issue. Now they seem to be working fine (although I did manage to crash the PC when I stacked up too many of them at once! ).

So you're returning to Sonar, ttoz?

very much thinking about it...then you said "although I did manage to crash the PC when I stacked up too many of them at once! "

this is classic Sonar behaviour I do NOT miss. lol.

but since Tracktion 2 is going nowhere, Reaper doesn't have the features i need, cubase has a dongle, Live is great for putting loops ideas together but not as a main composer imo...sonar could be the one, with live rewired to it.

I still have a valid sonar 4 prod license which means that if i upgade to 5 now i also get 6 for free (aug promotion) so its relatively inexpensive, well, less than a reaper commercial license anyway!

[Space Boy]

This is bad news for Sonar that I am almost certain I am purchasng soon.

I rely on Elevayta quite a bit and all the "workarounds" are devastating...like uncheck use delay comp..i cant work without delay comp! Or use ext as a wrapper...again, then the delay comp wont be reported!! rasise latency above 10ms..NEVER!!!

There must be another way!

All Elevayta plugs work in Cubase without problem - Steinberg must be doing something right with the VST standard they developed.

Most host vendors conform (e.g Ableton, Tracktion, Bidule, eXT etc, and all the cheap and free hosts), just a few seem to have problems - and not just with Elevayta plugs.

BTW, I think the "uncheck delay comp" is not an issue (leave it checked).

It's easy to forget how complex it is to guarantee that one plug-in works in all hosts ever made. We're trying our best to adapt to many moving targets - not least of all the new VST standard and 64-bit hosts.

Paul

[ObsoleteAcc99]

This is bad news for Sonar that I am almost certain I am purchasng soon.

I rely on Elevayta quite a bit and all the "workarounds" are devastating...like uncheck use delay comp..i cant work without delay comp! Or use ext as a wrapper...again, then the delay comp wont be reported!! rasise latency above 10ms..NEVER!!!

There must be another way!

All Elevayta plugs work in Cubase without problem - Steinberg must be doing something right with the VST standard they developed.

Most host vendors conform (e.g Ableton, Tracktion, Bidule, eXT etc, and all the cheap and free hosts), just a few seem to have problems - and not just with Elevayta plugs.

BTW, I think the "uncheck delay comp" is not an issue (leave it checked).

It's easy to forget how complex it is to guarantee that one plug-in works in all hosts ever made. We're trying our best to adapt to many moving targets - not least of all the new VST standard and 64-bit hosts.

Paul

and there is a current vst adapter beta with sonar that is meant to solve a wealth of problems.

[Space Boy]

and there is a current vst adapter beta with sonar that is meant to solve a wealth of problems.

Good to know!

[Jason Brian Merrill]

... another reason why it would be nice for Sonar to have real VST support

I think you draw the wrong conclusion (possibly you're joking though?).

This is actually a problem any developer faces trying to ensure that a VST plugin works well in a whole variety of different host applications, some of which like Cubase offer VST "native support" (albeit, not the latest version!), others like SONAR admit to using a wrapper, while still others again use a wrapper but hide it (e.g. Audition, FL).

All hosts have difficulty with at least a few VSTs running properly - whether they include a wrapper or not - and their respective forums all contain numberous threads where users report VST compatibilities. For that matter I notice that on the Elevayta site under "known Issues" there are problems with these VSTs in a number of hosts - eXT and Bidule - that have "native" support, not just those using a wrapper.

i wont go into the differences between sonar's wrapper and every other vst host - perhaps a search would reveal something? But it sucks, imho.

[headquest]

It's easy to forget how complex it is to guarantee that one plug-in works in all hosts ever made. We're trying our best to adapt to many moving targets - not least of all the new VST standard and 64-bit hosts.

In terms of Audition 2.0, the big change you will find is that it now supports VST automation envelopes, which I presume means they overhauled VST implementation in general...?

Also, it now has ASIO support, adding which repoirtedly involved a full rewite of the audio engine.