Upgrading my computer - Reasonable suggestions

[Jac459]

I'd go for an Intel CPU. They still have the best single core performance (which is still the most important thing for audio).

If you don't feel comfortable building yourself, there are specialized stores which build PC's for audio. Depending on your country, of course.

You could also just take a gaming PC, which will do it in most cases as well (I have a multi purpose PC).

The OP is not very clear on it but my understanding is that he uses a laptop.

Building a PC can be very cost efficient but I wouldn't recommend a gaming PC if you don't plan gaming... GPU are not cheap and are unnecessarily increasing the bill.

[Synthman2000]

If you go PC I can only suggest Intel, desktop, SSD only, specialist built if you want a fairly stress free life.

Yes there are other ways to do this for audio but they rely on getting lucky and it very much depends on what your audio activities are as to how much getting lucky you are willing to accept.

Laptops are a huge compromise on many levels. They can only hope to have the same power as a desktop. I would never use one for audio.

I demand power and reliability, so spec some of my own components through a specialist PC builder.

If something goes wrong, and it frequently does, when building a PC (even with experience you can get in trouble) then you are on your own. If you have lots of time and audio work is secondary to "the enjoyment PC parts", and not your profession then this might be fine. Or you may build a computer and it works fine first time. All possibilities.

Do you have more time and hardware interest than money ? There lies the answer.

[BONES]

I get that this means a new computer. I also get that Apples are overpriced. I'm mainly looking in the $800-$1500 range.

If that's your criteria, my advice is to look on eBay for factory refurbished machines. I've had a couple of Dells and an Asus and you get the peace of mind of a full factory warranty at second-hand prices. It's really hard to go past and I've never had any trouble with these machines.

[donkey tugger]

Indeed, there are some very good resellers these days - established companies offering guarantees as Bones says.

Recently bought an MSI laptop with i7-12700h processor for £500. In great condition with only few minor casing blemishes (bought it as 'B' grade so was expected).

[chk071]

I'd go for an Intel CPU. They still have the best single core performance (which is still the most important thing for audio).

If you don't feel comfortable building yourself, there are specialized stores which build PC's for audio. Depending on your country, of course.

You could also just take a gaming PC, which will do it in most cases as well (I have a multi purpose PC).

The OP is not very clear on it but my understanding is that he uses a laptop.

Building a PC can be very cost efficient but I wouldn't recommend a gaming PC if you don't plan gaming... GPU are not cheap and are unnecessarily increasing the bill.

Yeah. My suggestion for a gaming PC was for the case when you need a multi purpose PC, which isn't used for audio alone.

[chk071]

If you go PC I can only suggest Intel, desktop, SSD only, specialist built if you want a fairly stress free life.

Yes there are other ways to do this for audio but they rely on getting lucky and it very much depends on what your audio activities are as to how much getting lucky you are willing to accept.

Laptops are a huge compromise on many levels. They can only hope to have the same power as a desktop. I would never use one for audio.

Me neither. A desktop PC gives you way more bang for the buck, doesn't come with the performance - energy consumption compromise like all laptops do, comes with more USB ports, and you also can pack more disk space into it.

[Synthman2000]

I always get the impression laptops are bottle necked by their CPU architecture, the bussing on the MB / slow or small amount of cache on the chips / memory. They just don't cut the mustard the whole thing is slowsville.

I appreciate when needs must, being mobile etc. but they make no sense at all for home or in an actual studio. More money for much less performance.

There might be a little less room for error with PC hardware choices in 2023 but so much can go wrong, even when you think you know what you are doing. I know what I am doing and you can still come unstuck, trust me. I got away lightly with a few assembly scrapes and that is despite taking care, head torches, anti static precautions etc. It can be fiddly ! It all changes a bit every 5 years or so, how fans and heat sinks fit, MB's to chassis, CPU to socket etc. And that is before you even connect the power and configure the BIOS well, get everything tweaked up.

How much time have you got and the answer is you may need a completely unknown amount of time, it might work first time and more likely something won't be quite right.

I pay other pro's to do that these days. Money well spent.

[chk071]

I always get the impression laptops are bottle necked by their CPU architecture

It's the (lack of) cooling, and that laptop CPUs are designed for low energy consumption. Can't have CPUs which quickly suck empty the battery.

[Negoba]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Since this will be a dedicated music computer only, I'm leaning on taking the suggestion on getting a used PC that I can customize. It seems like I can get a lot more bang for my buck especially with the focus this machine will have.

To clarify a previous point - Vital does not crash my computer, it just cracks and pops while running it with virtually any other instruments running at the same time.

[BONES]

Laptops are a huge compromise on many levels. They can only hope to have the same power as a desktop. I would never use one for audio.

Not if you work efficiently. I've just finished an album on a Core i5 2-in-1 without the tiniest little problem. 20 years ago it was definitely an issue but in 2023 there are way more important considerations. And it's not like audio is hard, I've got a Core i9 machine for the properly hard stuff.

I demand power and reliability, so spec some of my own components through a specialist PC builder.

I also demand power and reliability, so I buy cheap shit off eBay. Again, it's 2023 and this is 2003 thinking.

If something goes wrong, and it frequently does, when building a PC (even with experience you can get in trouble) then you are on your own.

Another good reason to go with a well integrated laptop.

A desktop PC gives you way more bang for the buck, doesn't come with the performance - energy consumption compromise like all laptops do, comes with more USB ports, and you also can pack more disk space into it.

And if those things matter to you, then those points are valid, but they haven't been an issue for me since I bought my first laptop in 2007. Having carted my desktop PC around Europe the first time we played over there, I got a fairly vivid demonstration of the amazingness of laptops and immediately started saving for one.

I appreciate when needs must, being mobile etc. but they make no sense at all for home or in an actual studio. More money for much less performance.

What I've discovered makes no sense is having more than one computer. It creates way worse bottlenecks than anything you might find in a laptop's internals. So if you need anything that a laptop has to offer over a desktop, then it makes the most sense to go with a laptop. I would certainly rather work on any of my laptops than on my workstation at the office, and we have two team so of dedicated IT professionals to keep those things running optimally.

I know what I am doing

I've seen very little evidence to support that statement over the years, I'm afraid.

[kritikon]

I went over to laptop 3 yrs ago and was extremely skeptical about them but have been totally won over, against what I thought was my own better judgment. There are still some pros & cons but absolutely nothing is insurmountable. Issues I can see are:
1. Power consumption. I have maybe 3 hrs doing music on battery, so you have to consider it needs to be plugged in. Mostly ain't going to be an issue for everyone most of the time though.
2. Processing power. Yeah you can squeeze more in a desktop for similar price, but you can get a decent powered laptop for your price. No doubt whatsoever. There are 2 plugins that can bring my 3yr i7 old laptop to its knees, both great synths but dodgy coding and I can still use them if sensible and rendering etc. Korg Opsix & Wavestate. It is not normal for plugins to do this, by the way, I can do whole projects on laptop, no issues normally.
3. Drive memory. Same as 2. TBH a 500GB SSD is more than enough. I can work with a 250GB one but it does mean I have to limit things like working with sample devices. A 500GB drive should come in under your budget nowadays.
4. Portability. Laptop wins outright. And this IS an issue for many. I need the laptop just for everyday stuff like TV in the house. It's been a godsend for uni work etc. I use it for lots of other stuff. I can afford to have a second desktop for my studio, but why should I? TBH I don't want to spend another minimum $3000 on a PC I only use for 1 thing in the studio. I only want 1 computer, I can do everything with 1 and it works perfectly well. Actually we did buy a 2nd hand ex business thing for general household duties in the end which was a few hundred $s cheap as chips. Didn't need to spend 1000s for that. But the laptop is still used for TV etc.
5. USB ports. Yes, you get more on a PC. But I have NEVER needed more than the 3 on the laptop. 1 for interface/MIDI, 1 for occasional synth connection for OS updates etc, 1 for dongle which I don't now need. Which leaves a spare for controller if needed, but I have loads of hw synths, so don't need separate controller anyway. I have a studio with shitloads of hw and I DO NOT NEED multi USB connections. End of.

I don't doubt I can get more in a desktop, but I don't NEED to have more. Nobody does, but they might WANT to, their choice. Laptops are pretty solid/quick/reliable/flexible nowadays. A 1 yr old second hand one for your budget should be doable and pretty powerful. Mac? Your choice for OS but you might struggle on that budget. PC, definitely within budget.

[Synthman2000]

Laptops are a huge compromise on many levels. They can only hope to have the same power as a desktop. I would never use one for audio.

Not if you work efficiently. I've just finished an album on a Core i5 2-in-1 without the tiniest little problem. 20 years ago it was definitely an issue but in 2023 there are way more important considerations. And it's not like audio is hard, I've got a Core i9 machine for the properly hard stuff.

I demand power and reliability, so spec some of my own components through a specialist PC builder.

I also demand power and reliability, so I buy cheap shit off eBay. Again, it's 2023 and this is 2003 thinking.

If something goes wrong, and it frequently does, when building a PC (even with experience you can get in trouble) then you are on your own.

Another good reason to go with a well integrated laptop.

A desktop PC gives you way more bang for the buck, doesn't come with the performance - energy consumption compromise like all laptops do, comes with more USB ports, and you also can pack more disk space into it.

And if those things matter to you, then those points are valid, but they haven't been an issue for me since I bought my first laptop in 2007. Having carted my desktop PC around Europe the first time we played over there, I got a fairly vivid demonstration of the amazingness of laptops and immediately started saving for one.

I appreciate when needs must, being mobile etc. but they make no sense at all for home or in an actual studio. More money for much less performance.

What I've discovered makes no sense is having more than one computer. It creates way worse bottlenecks than anything you might find in a laptop's internals. So if you need anything that a laptop has to offer over a desktop, then it makes the most sense to go with a laptop. I would certainly rather work on any of my laptops than on my workstation at the office, and we have two team so of dedicated IT professionals to keep those things running optimally.

I know what I am doing

I've seen very little evidence to support that statement over the years, I'm afraid.

You are an angry, sensitive, defensive poster BONES it's bizarre how you somehow think this is posted about you personally. I skim your posts, just to see if there is anything other than a load of negativity.

[kritikon]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Since this will be a dedicated music computer only, I'm leaning on taking the suggestion on getting a used PC that I can customize. It seems like I can get a lot more bang for my buck especially with the focus this machine will have.

To clarify a previous point - Vital does not crash my computer, it just cracks and pops while running it with virtually any other instruments running at the same time.

If this a going to be a dedicated music pc then I take back my previous post. Definitely a used desktop fits your bill. You should be able to find one with decent enough processor and maybe even RAM already. Graphics, not anything I would even bother looking at - any decent PC will have decent enough graphics for music. RAM is cheap & easy if you need more though and probably worth getting as much as budget allows. Drive is most likely the thing you might need to upgrade, but a recent one should be ok. Don't even consider old moving part drives - new M2 SSD or whatever they're called are the ones. Incredibly fast load-up and quicker everything. 1TB should be enough for anything you need.
Good luck on your search.

[Negoba]

If this a going to be a dedicated music pc then I take back my previous post. Definitely a used desktop fits your bill. You should be able to find one with decent enough processor and maybe even RAM already. Graphics, not anything I would even bother looking at - any decent PC will have decent enough graphics for music. RAM is cheap & easy if you need more though and probably worth getting as much as budget allows. Drive is most likely the thing you might need to upgrade, but a recent one should be ok. Don't even consider old moving part drives - new M2 SSD or whatever they're called are the ones. Incredibly fast load-up and quicker everything. 1TB should be enough for anything you need.
Good luck on your search.

Thanks for the advice and taking the time to be so thoughtful about it.

A relative has a 2020 desktop with an i7 10700 with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB of memory which will be a great starting point for me and a huge upgrade from what I have. They got a new job that supplies hardware so this one is sitting unused. And the price is right.

I probably wouldn't have even considered a PC desktop as a possibility without everyone's input here. Appreciate it!

[chk071]

If this a going to be a dedicated music pc then I take back my previous post. Definitely a used desktop fits your bill. You should be able to find one with decent enough processor and maybe even RAM already. Graphics, not anything I would even bother looking at - any decent PC will have decent enough graphics for music. RAM is cheap & easy if you need more though and probably worth getting as much as budget allows. Drive is most likely the thing you might need to upgrade, but a recent one should be ok. Don't even consider old moving part drives - new M2 SSD or whatever they're called are the ones. Incredibly fast load-up and quicker everything. 1TB should be enough for anything you need.
Good luck on your search.

Thanks for the advice and taking the time to be so thoughtful about it.

A relative has a 2020 desktop with an i7 10700 with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB of memory which will be a great starting point for me and a huge upgrade from what I have. They got a new job that supplies hardware so this one is sitting unused. And the price is right.

I'm sure you'll be happy with it.