Logic Pro 11 is announced

[jamcat]

I wonder what happens regarding the copyright ownership of songs helped written with the virtual session players, because you need to literally be a human to create copyright ownership of material. As far as I know, you can't copyright the outputs your text prompts produced in Udio etc. So I wonder what the case is here?

There is a whole can of worms being opened possibly regarding potential liabilities of using Logic Pro 11 as your DAW, simply because the option of a virtual session player exists in it. What if someone steals your song, you take them to court, and it's thrown out because they showed you created it in a program that creates the song for you via AI? I've seen crazier things so..

It really feels like the virtual session player isn't exactly the same thing as hiring an actual session player. In my opinion we are already approaching this sort of stuff eventually getting legally tested with generative MIDI stuff like Scaler, Ableton, etc. I've been waiting for the copyright infringement lawsuit to pop up where the defendant claims "I didn't steal it, I Scaler generated the progression for me, sue them!"

I am not an expert or authority on the subject matter, just my immediate thoughts because the AI seems to be the flagship of the announcement, and it seems a step above the threshold of what we've seen used so far in DAWs.

Generally, the only copyrightable parts of a song are the lyrics and primary melody. So accompanying instruments, ostinatos, chord progressions, etc., aren’t going to be subject to copyright.

It is the same as session musicians filling out a composition. They have no copyright claim for doing their jobs, either.

[Trensharo]

not worth v11 imo, still looks like a 10.x with some additional sauce to market their M series even more

...at the time the update it is a free update ?

…and therefore nothing to complain about…
How many developers have released free updates for their DAWs in past 15 years?
How many DAWS have so much to offer for $199 without upgrade fees?

Most professionals can easily afford to pay for upgrades, and many of those professionals don't see need to upgrade when they don't need the upgrade. Upgrade costs aren't that high over the long term for people who buy based on requirements instead of FOMO.

If you don't need a Chord Track of "AI" Session players, there isn't going to be a huge impetus to care whether or not this upgrade is free or paid. You may not even want to take it because, why risk breaking what isn't broken?

There are DAWs with far better core DAW feature sets than Logic Pro, so to many people they are worth the upcharge. Not all things can be bolted on with plug-ins, and plug-ins are easy and cheap to acquire, these days. Most DAWs have fantastic stock plug-ins, anyways.

The price argument does come across as "Hobbyist Logic" to a lot of people.

Practically speaking, none of the features described - thus far - are things that most seasoned producers would pay for, so the attractiveness and any hype factor stems mostly from the anticipation of users getting it as a free upgrade.

Would you pay $99 for Cubase 14 if all it had to offer was new Piano/Bass Instruments and AI Session Players and something like RC-20 (which any of us who need that, already have purchased because we can't see the future)?

Many of us already have multiple Stem Separation tools, as well. It's 2024. Not much is really "trailblazing" new territory, here. Many of us had to bolt this stuff on years ago because it wasn't there - so we've already basically paid the upgrade fees to graft the features onto the DAW via third-party purchases.

The biggest feature, thus far, is the Chord Track, but we still don't know how that actually works. I'll have to wait and see for myself.

Honestly, I'd give all of that up for a properly functioned Apple Silicon Native ARA2 implementation.

Sometimes, fixing what's broken is worth more than adding a few niggles here and there.

I'm probably going to hold off on Upgrading after experiencing the AU breakages of Ventura 13.3.1. I don't want to risk anything like that ever happening again to me, Lol.

The only plug-in in Logic Pro that really stands out to me is the Alchemy Synth. I would have bought V Collection and Pigments, anyways, so that's kind of a wash for me.

[pdxindy]

If you don't need a Chord Track of "AI" Session players, there isn't going to be a huge impetus to care whether or not this upgrade is free or paid. You may not even want to take it because, why risk breaking what isn't broken?

You're jumping the gun. We need to see the changelog before saying that. There could be a bunch of small stuff, core improvements and bug fixes that people who don't care about the headline features want and will upgrade for.

[Trensharo]

If you don't need a Chord Track of "AI" Session players, there isn't going to be a huge impetus to care whether or not this upgrade is free or paid. You may not even want to take it because, why risk breaking what isn't broken?

You're jumping the gun. We need to see the changelog before saying that. There could be a bunch of small stuff, core improvements and bug fixes that people who don't care about the headline features want and will upgrade for.

I'm jumping the gun? But you clearly "jumped the gun" and replied before you got to the following statement in the same post:

The biggest feature, thus far, is the Chord Track, but we still don't know how that actually works. I'll have to wait and see for myself.

Clearly, I am aware of the difference between announcements with feature highlights and marketing material, and an actual product release - as in... we can actually run it and see every detail of every change in action...

Additionally, that was a conditional statement, not a declarative statement. Everything in that was conditional. That's why the latter part is phrased as a question.

Finally, did you even bother to take into account the context of my post, as it pertains to the post I am replying to and the underlying concept that user is projecting in their post?

My post was less about the literal virtues of those features in a theoretical sense, but how different people may value them in a practical sense. Which means that even if this was a $99 upgrade, there may be little to no reason for many people to bother caring about purchasing it.

You have completely missed the forest through the trees, and for what reason?

[pdxindy]

I'm jumping the gun?

Yes...

[Trensharo]

I'm jumping the gun?

Yes...

Bye.

Can't read. Can troll.

Keep up with thread and context of replies before wasting people's time.

[apoclypse]

I’m hoping for bug fixes 10.8.1 is buggy as all get out. Many reports of random audio dropouts from folks online. In my case plugins just stop sending audio. No real rhyme or reason just happens.

I like Logic but sometimes it feels like a house of cards every time they add something new something else breaks.

[audiouser720]

If they didn’t make the mixer faders bigger / resizable, they are not allowed to call this a major upgrade

[dayjob]

If they didn’t make the mixer faders bigger / resizable, they are not allowed to call this a major upgrade

This is how the sermon I give to the logic devs would begin.

[revvy]

To compare pricing on Logic updates with Cubase updates by just putting a theoretical price on just this latest update is weird IMO.

Totally different pricing models, with Logic waaaaaay better value for money, for obvious reasons.

[Trensharo]

To compare pricing on Logic updates with Cubase updates by just putting a theoretical price on just this latest update is weird IMO.

Totally different pricing models, with Logic waaaaaay better value for money, for obvious reasons.

Again, that's ignoring the point that you have to buy a Mac to get it, and if you're working on larger projects, like bigger orchestral scores, that can entail massive spec upgrades that far outpace the component pricing in the PC Market.

If you need a M3 Pro MBP (14") with 64GB RAM, then the price of the machine goes up by ~$1K instantly, because you have to get both a CPU and RAM upgrade to get to that RAM benchmark. It's a minimum $3K Laptop.

In a PC, you can get your i7 Laptop and just buy 64GB RAM for $200 or less and slot it into the machine. You can save a grand just on the hardware purchase, and benchmarks don't matter if the machine does the job without issue. While you're at it, but a 2TB PCIe 4 SSD for ~$150 to slot in while you're in there. The MBP is a $200 cost to go from 512GB to 1TB (not included in the price estimate I cited).

If software is limited to a specific vendor's hardware device, then the disparities in hardware cost extend to that software application, as it is a requirement for running that software. The same way Cubase's effective price was $25 higher when it used a dongle, because you had to buy that dongle to run the software.

Comparing only software MSRP is the weird thing, as it's not intellectually honest and ignores the elephant in the room.

Any Cubase user can opt out of the high hardware costs and simply get a PC that hits their spec benchmarks at a much lower price point. This lowers the LTCO of acquiring and utilizing that DAW. I know. I have both Cubase and Logic Pro, as well as a PC Notebook and a MBP that I bought to run Logic and Final Cut Pro.

The MBP and Logic Pro have still outpaced the cost of my PC Laptop, Cubase Pro 10.5 crossgrade, and every Cubase upgrade that I have bought since then (every release, basically)... buy HUNDREDS of dollars. Next time I upgrade my MBP, it's going to blow it out of the water. Cubase will never catch up as long as I continue to use Macs, unless I start keeping them for something like 5-7 years each. There is no way it would ever catch up if I also moved my Desktop to a Mac Studio.

Every time I have to upgrade that MBP, you're going to have to pay that price disparity, since I cannot do what I'd do with PCs - just take the components I upgraded out of the last machine and move it to the next one (SSDs, RAM, GPU (Desktop), etc.). That more than eliminates any pricing disparity between Logic Pro and Cubase Pro - except in situations where the user is completely unwilling to exercise the choice you have in platforms and are dead set on only using Macs.

Shockingly, some people are fairly platform agnostic and will (and absolutely should) factor this in.

No business looks at cheap software and calls it a great deal if it means they have to spend millions replacing computers to run it. People need to start thinking more like a business.

The reason why Apple is able to sell their software for those prices is precicely becasue the hardware they require to run more than makes up for it. No different than DaVinci Resolve being subsidized by (and even bundled with) Blackmagic Design's hardware.

[revvy]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write. Not bitterness, no, just f**king bullshitness.

[pdxindy]

To compare pricing on Logic updates with Cubase updates by just putting a theoretical price on just this latest update is weird IMO.

Totally different pricing models, with Logic waaaaaay better value for money, for obvious reasons.

Again, that's ignoring the point that you have to buy a Mac to get it, and if you're working on larger projects, like bigger orchestral scores, that can entail massive spec upgrades that far outpace the component pricing in the PC Market.

That is ignoring the point that this point is only applicable for people switching platforms.

Lot's of people already have a Mac regardless of Logic, so none of those people need to buy a Mac to buy Logic.

[Trensharo]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write. Not bitterness, no, just f**king bullshitness.

Salt?

That doesn't address anything that I wrote in that post.

And yes, Macs are functionally a dongle for Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro. They're mono-platform software. No different than a PC is effectively a dongle for software like Cakewalk Sonar and Samplitude Pro X. It goes BOTH ways.

The incur increased costs that can be dodged by using other software, resulting in lower LTCO. That's a very valid valuation consideration.

You literally have to be stupid to disagree with that.

I think I've found your heart, though

Other person, I already told you what the T is, so you can stop sending me useless notifications. See the signature.

[revvy]

Salt?

Salt ? Bad for you.

Just pointing out how ridiculous your ‘Logic’s dongle’ comment was. But I see you’ve edited it anyway, so I guess we’re in agreement.

I use a Mac for many reasons at home and choose to use a PC at work for many other reasons. The bargain price of Logic is gravy.