Drum Loop Slicing Question

[seangm]

TAL updates can be frequent at times. How often and how many email notifications would you be comfortable with?

If it was one email, per product, per update, I'd be inundated... but if it was a weekly summary with all product updates in the same email, then I could live with that.

I understand the updates are frequent at the beginning of a release, so maybe have a "beta period" of a month or something after a major release where there aren't emails sent out. But after a release is stable like the current Tal Sampler then I would want to be notified of an update. I don't spend a lot of time browsing this area of KVR or the TAL site so the only way I know about the updates is if I happen to see a post like today. Just my 2c, others may feel differently.

[EmptyVessel]

I have had this conversation, in the end I periodically check the version numbers on each product page. I had started posting every couple of weeks on Twitter with the current versions. Is mailing list the preferred way? It actually can be quite costly to send out emails to a large mailing list if it's done regularly, my e-commerce provider allocates me a certain number per year and charges enthusiastically thereafter, a very real cost for an indie dev.
We have a TAL Community facebook group and Patrick is fairly active on Twitter, as am I (although I see he didn't post about this on Twitter). I could post to a thread here each time there's an update if that helps? A "current version" thread which I can update each time with version number and changelog?
Happy to do that if it helps, it's been a frustration for me in the past also. Open to suggestions.

[neverbeeninariot]

Aye, I usually check the TAL website about once a month unless I know he's working on something I'm interested in, in which case I'll check more often, but it doesn't bother me that much to do it manually. I also keep the Tal-Drum thread I started in the Instruments forum up to date with the current version number for visibility.

If I had a preference, it would be auto-version checking from the plugin once a week or so (like many other vendors do), but I know that a sizeable number of folks don't like plugins talking home, and it would also place more infrastructure/cost burdens on Patrick (and ultimately, you, the customer).

He should maybe have a chat with Saverio over at HoRNet though, he definitely doesn't have a problem with his email provider...

[seangm]

I have had this conversation, in the end I periodically check the version numbers on each product page. I had started posting every couple of weeks on Twitter with the current versions. Is mailing list the preferred way? It actually can be quite costly to send out emails to a large mailing list if it's done regularly, my e-commerce provider allocates me a certain number per year and charges enthusiastically thereafter, a very real cost for an indie dev.
We have a TAL Community facebook group and Patrick is fairly active on Twitter, as am I (although I see he didn't post about this on Twitter). I could post to a thread here each time there's an update if that helps? A "current version" thread which I can update each time with version number and changelog?
Happy to do that if it helps, it's been a frustration for me in the past also. Open to suggestions.

I understand if it's a cost thing for an indie dev, I appreciate the TAL products and am glad that they exist. I didn't realize that a mailing list would be a big expense so that's ignorance on my part. I don't generally go looking for updates because life is just too busy with other stuff. A Current version thread is a good idea (extra work for you though).

[EmptyVessel]

I also keep the Tal-Drum thread I started in the Instruments forum up to date with the current version number for visibility.

Thank you! Maybe if there was a current version thread for all products (I generally know what Patrick is working on currently so I know what to keep an eye on) we could all keep an eye on it then it's not just on me, although I'm happy to do it.

If I had a preference, it would be auto-version checking from the plugin once a week or so (like many other vendors do), but I know that a sizeable number of folks don't like plugins talking home, and it would also place more infrastructure/cost burdens on Patrick (and ultimately, you, the customer).

Yeah same here, if it's just a version check on startup it's fine by me and by far the most efficient way for me to find out.

He should maybe have a chat with Saverio over at HoRNet though, he definitely doesn't have a problem with his email provider...

I've no experience with HoRNet but I get what you mean, Plugin Alliance seem to have a bottomless pit of money for mail outs too

I understand if it's a cost thing for an indie dev, I appreciate the TAL products and am glad that they exist. I didn't realize that a mailing list would be a big expense so that's ignorance on my part. I don't generally go looking for updates because life is just too busy with other stuff. A Current version thread is a good idea (extra work for you though).

Yeah and maybe a time thing partially too, so much pressure on single-person companies to do everything. I didn't realise the expense either until I built up a customer mailing list and TAL's mailing list is hugely bigger than mine. I'm the same, it's just an inefficient way to do it, what if you check and then the next day there's an update.
I'll start a current versions thread and do my best to check regularly. I've asked Patrick again to flick me a quick email when he's made an update so I can post here, Twitter and the Facebook group.
Maybe at some point a Discord server is a good idea but if people are used to coming here that's fine.

[EcHo2K]

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[HoRNet]

He should maybe have a chat with Saverio over at HoRNet though, he definitely doesn't have a problem with his email provider...

We don't pay for emails we manage our own mail server (of course you need to know how to do it, an email service for the amount of mails we send may easily cost over 1K/month) we simply pay 20$/month for the server, then we handle everything by ourself, including the ip reputation and spam complain/abuse requests, in the end it's pretty easy if you know how to do it (and I've been operating websites, emails and web services for ages now since I started in the late 90s doing these things )

Saverio

[EmptyVessel]

We don't pay for emails we manage our own mail server (of course you need to know how to do it, an email service for the amount of mails we send may easily cost over 1K/month) we simply pay 20$/month for the server, then we handle everything by ourself, including the ip reputation and spam complain/abuse requests, in the end it's pretty easy if you know how to do it (and I've been operating websites, emails and web services for ages now since I started in the late 90s doing these things )

Saverio

Thanks for the info Saverio! I've chatted with Patrick quite a bit about the need to keep the IP reputation good and avoid getting targeted by spam filters, I had no idea this was an issue. 1k per month - yeah I think it's not well known how expensive this can be.
Maybe a mail server is something we can look into. I did used to look after a Microsoft Exchange mail server but it was over 20 years ago and I haven't done any IT work at all for the last 12 at least.
Cheers!

[HoRNet]

We don't pay for emails we manage our own mail server (of course you need to know how to do it, an email service for the amount of mails we send may easily cost over 1K/month) we simply pay 20$/month for the server, then we handle everything by ourself, including the ip reputation and spam complain/abuse requests, in the end it's pretty easy if you know how to do it (and I've been operating websites, emails and web services for ages now since I started in the late 90s doing these things )

Saverio

Thanks for the info Saverio! I've chatted with Patrick quite a bit about the need to keep the IP reputation good and avoid getting targeted by spam filters, I had no idea this was an issue. 1k per month - yeah I think it's not well known how expensive this can be.
Maybe a mail server is something we can look into. I did used to look after a Microsoft Exchange mail server but it was over 20 years ago and I haven't done any IT work at all for the last 12 at least.
Cheers!

Those 1K figures is the latest bill we received from sendgrid when we used that.

We actually run a small VPS on digital ocean that runs debit linux + postfix. The Newsletter stuff is handled by Wordpress + "The newsletter plugin" (a plugin designed for newsletter management) we daily export our customers and mailing list subscribers from our website (which runs on another VPS with Wordpress and easy digital downloads) and import them into the newsletter plugin.

Then daily check with MX toolbox the reputation, of course we also need to handle the bounces, but there is a module for the newsletter plugin that does that automatically.

Saverio

[EmptyVessel]

But after a release is stable like the current Tal Sampler then I would want to be notified of an update. I don't spend a lot of time browsing this area of KVR or the TAL site so the only way I know about the updates is if I happen to see a post like today. Just my 2c, others may feel differently.

We are discussing what we could do about this, for the moment I'll keep the "current versions" thread up to date so if you sub to that thread you should get notifications when I add to it, there's also Twitter and the TAL community Facebook group.
It's been an issue for quite a long time for me so hopefully we can get something a bit more streamlined in place.

[seangm]

I have had this conversation, in the end I periodically check the version numbers on each product page. I had started posting every couple of weeks on Twitter with the current versions. Is mailing list the preferred way? It actually can be quite costly to send out emails to a large mailing list if it's done regularly, my e-commerce provider allocates me a certain number per year and charges enthusiastically thereafter, a very real cost for an indie dev.
We have a TAL Community facebook group and Patrick is fairly active on Twitter, as am I (although I see he didn't post about this on Twitter). I could post to a thread here each time there's an update if that helps? A "current version" thread which I can update each time with version number and changelog?
Happy to do that if it helps, it's been a frustration for me in the past also. Open to suggestions.

Just reviving this discussion about Tal updates since something occurred to me while I was checking if I needed to update my Tal plugins. Since he doesn't send out an update email, if he just listed the date that the latest update was posted it would save some time when updating (at least for me). I only update every couple of months so if I see an update has been posted in that time then I know I need to download it. Withough knowing the date of the update I have to open each of my Tal plugins and check the version number and then go check it aganst the version on the product page which is more work than I would like to have to do. I guess I could just download all the plugin installers that I own and install but that is also kind of a PIA since I own a bunch of them. Just my 2c but it seems like it would be easy for him to just list the date of the latest update on the product page. Thanks.

[EmptyVessel]

Just reviving this discussion about Tal updates since something occurred to me while I was checking if I needed to update my Tal plugins. Since he doesn't send out an update email, if he just listed the date that the latest update was posted it would save some time when updating (at least for me). I only update every couple of months so if I see an update has been posted in that time then I know I need to download it. Withough knowing the date of the update I have to open each of my Tal plugins and check the version number and then go check it aganst the version on the product page which is more work than I would like to have to do. I guess I could just download all the plugin installers that I own and install but that is also kind of a PIA since I own a bunch of them. Just my 2c but it seems like it would be easy for him to just list the date of the latest update on the product page. Thanks.

The Changelog tab does at least have a date for each update, that's where I usually check. I'll ask him if he thinks it's appropriate to add the date up by the Download version number too.

Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 09.21.58.png

[seangm]

Just reviving this discussion about Tal updates since something occurred to me while I was checking if I needed to update my Tal plugins. Since he doesn't send out an update email, if he just listed the date that the latest update was posted it would save some time when updating (at least for me). I only update every couple of months so if I see an update has been posted in that time then I know I need to download it. Withough knowing the date of the update I have to open each of my Tal plugins and check the version number and then go check it aganst the version on the product page which is more work than I would like to have to do. I guess I could just download all the plugin installers that I own and install but that is also kind of a PIA since I own a bunch of them. Just my 2c but it seems like it would be easy for him to just list the date of the latest update on the product page. Thanks.

The Changelog tab does at least have a date for each update, that's where I usually check. I'll ask him if he thinks it's appropriate to add the date up by the Download version number too.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 09.21.58.png

Thanks, I didn't think to look in the changelog but that makes sense and will work for me.