Selling VST2 after October 2018: Steinberg agreement

[Urs]

do you think it's technically doable to create a simple feature in any daw that transform a vst2/vst3/Au instance of a plugin into a Clap one (in the case the original version of the plugin is not installed anymore) ?

So, we (u-he) are currently in the process of figuring out how to do this reliably from VST2 to VST3. It's working well with NI and Steinberg, but more host developers need to support it.

Likewise, a similar thing is absolutely possible with CLAP. There is a draft (= unfinished) extension that makes possible the conversion of project saved settings from one plug-in to another, between different versions of the same plug-in or between different formats of the same plug-in, or any combination thereof.

I think this will need more discussion, but at some point it'll just work.

[Calagan]

Likewise, a similar thing is absolutely possible with CLAP. There is a draft (= unfinished) extension that makes possible the conversion of project saved settings from one plug-in to another, between different versions of the same plug-in or between different formats of the same plug-in, or any combination thereof.

I think this will need more discussion, but at some point it'll just work.

Thanks a lot for your answer and for bringing hope...
Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, about my use of audio computer and my problems with that (I very often search for old stuff in my hard drive to re-use old ideas and remix them or transform them into new ideas), but it would be a "game changer" !
And this time, this expression truly makes sense.

Recently, with the change to Apple Silicon and the abandon of vst2, I started to transition to vst3. Using only vst3 in new projects, replacing vst2 with vst3 in old sessions when I had the time or when it was necessary (with NI plugins for exemple). It's a constant hassle with NI because they don't update anymore their vst2 plugins and only the vst3 versions are compatible with Apple Silicon (and are updated). Same problem with plugins versions (Kontakt 5, Kontakt 6, Kontakt7, Guitar Rig 5, Guitar 6 and so on).
It's truly a PITA ! I've got something else to do in my life than saving presets from vst2, opening the preset on vst3 and using a null test to see if it sounds the same (Reaktor, for exemple, doesn't save in its presets the global volume of the ensemble, and there's no number associated with this volume, so it's always a "remix" situation). And the null test doesn't always work (depending on the use of randomization for each plugin). And I don't even speak about the automations...

Anyway, I don't know how you could promote this kind of feature, but it would save many people many hour of their life doing boring stuff, and let them do music or mixing instead of taking care of formats of their tools.
I would be eternally grateful if Ableton would implement this feature in Live.

EDIT : by the way, off topic, but please allow us to rename the favorites in Diva.

[baconpaul]

It has always been in the plans to look into it. But supporting a new plug-in format is not much fun and opens the door to even more pain down the line. And remember that we both have plug-ins and hosts, so the cost is not negligible.

Anyway, it looks like Steinberg wants us to get faster on this train, so that's what we'll do. I am sure they have their reasons, but from the outside, their way of doing business with VST is really weird. Too bad.

Here to help if you need it. Discord is a better way to reach me than kvr but pm me if you want and I’ll share contact info etc

[Blue Cat Audio]

Here to help if you need it. Discord is a better way to reach me than kvr but pm me if you want and I’ll share contact info etc

Thanks! The spec looks simple and well defined, so I think it is mostly a matter of finding the time to do it, but I'll definitely reach out if needed!

[aMUSEd]

I love the irony that in their determination to push developers in the direction of VST3, Steinberg are instead pushing them into the opening arms of CLAP

[aciddose]

I love the irony ...

It was inevitable. They only needed to push hard enough, in the right places to tip things over the edge. I've always said this about these "standards", I've deeply criticized them and time and time again they've reliably gone in the opposite direction to improvement for productive aims.

When someone acts like a foe, when they grant themselves rights and privileges and disrespect you needlessly, you ought to question what makes them think this is to their advantage? Their view of you and themselves is clearly reflected in how they treat you. Why would those elements be part of the license agreement for VST3? Why needlessly add unenforceable terms that are made in bad faith with no positive outcome for any party to the agreement?

This isn't mere suspicion. We can see exactly why they've done what they've done as we're watching it play out now and we'll continue to see as we move into the future. VST was never a standard, it was never intended to support others or build a community, it was merely a dictatorial attempt to control via fear.

It's a shame the community has taken so very long to realize what I saw in 2002.

[wikter]

So, at this point we have both RST & CLAP alternatives to keep using plugins, but Steinberg is closing to VST3 all the commercial environment.

[dayjob]

I love the irony that in their determination to push developers in the direction of VST3, Steinberg are instead pushing them into the opening arms of CLAP

i do hope it works out that way

[anthony_wild]

In my mind, this is why a single corporation should not be in charge of (what has become) a universal audio plugin standard.

Other technologies have a committee of interested corporations that can influence the standard (this is important). But it is a committee and NOT a single corporation.

Older standards should never be made unavailable. It is up to the developers and users of that standard to decide if it is worth continuing with (in this case, developers = DAW developers and VST developers, users = people paying money to use a particular VST in a particular DAW).

If, for example, in 5 years time everybody stops using VST 2.4, then maybe developers will stop supporting it. But this should be up to the developers and users, not dictated by the “single custodian of the standard”.

Yes, Steinberg originally defined the VST standard. It was important for them that plug-in developers could write plug-ins that would work in their DAW products. But the world has moved on. There are many DAWs that support VST 2.4 (and VST 3) as well as many plug-ins for both standards. VST2.4 may (or may not) have died out in time. But that is up to the developers and users – not the standard keeper. Which is why the standard keeper should not be a single corporation. In my view.

Tony – long time lurker at KVR

[wikter]

Yes, Steinberg originally defined the VST standard.

Steinberg defined a PROPIETARY PROTOCOL. Not a STANDARD. CLAP is a Standard, VST3 is a CORPORATION OWNED PROTOCOL, start using that concept. Steinberg must know what they're doing.

[ghettosynth]

Yes, Steinberg originally defined the VST standard.

Steinberg defined a PROPIETARY PROTOCOL. Not a STANDARD. CLAP is a Standard, VST3 is a CORPORATION OWNED PROTOCOL, start using that concept. Steinberg must know what they're doing.

I don't think that anyone here is ignorant of that. VST2 is, in fact, a "de-facto" ( as opposed to de-jure) standard. HTML, SSH, and PDF are all standards that were originally proprietary and controlled be a specific org but were later released as standards. Sometimes companies open protocols to maintain viability, e.g., Ciscio EIGRP.

Of course it's in Steinberg's purview to do what they want with their own protocol. Further, we can debate the motivations of any of the above, it really can't be argued that VST2 did not become a de facto standard.

[anthony_wild]

Yes, you’re right. They developed a protocol. But that became a de facto standard over time because of global adoption (on Windows at least).

I'm sure that Steinberg know what they're doing. I'm also sure that what they are doing is not in everyone's best interests.

[wikter]

Yes, you’re right. They developed a protocol. But that became a de facto standard over time because of global adoption (on Windows at least).

They presented us VST & VST2 as standards. VST3 wasn't supported in the same way since the beggining.Now they're killing the STANDARD to force everyone move into their "PRIVATE PROTOCOL". When was VST3 first released? 2006? It was released with Cubase 4. Almost 20 years later, VST2 is widely extended.

[Music Engineer]

When was VST3 first released? 2006? It was released with Cubase 4.

2008. Here is an interesting discussion thread from that time:

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=204080

On page 2, the idea of creating an independent open source standard is brought up for the first time (that I am aware of, at least). Since then, it was discussed in various threads on and off here in this development forum which usually lead to nowhere other than almost everyone agreed that such a thing is needed and also that it won't happen. It took 14 more long years to come to fruition - but finally, it happened.

[wikter]

Cubase 4 was reviewed in Sound on Sound on December 2006.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/steinberg-cubase-4
It was released on 20th September 2006.
https://gearspace.com/board/steinberg-c ... eased.html
In fact, there are discussions about VST3 here in KVR since May 2006.

Tell Martinic Audio about this...
https://www.martinic.com/es/blog/vst3-a ... n-standard

En 2008, Steinberg introdujo una evolución revolucionaria en la tecnología de plugins con el lanzamiento de VST3.