Windows 11: better audio performance?

[Fannon]

I've heard that Windows 11 might get MIDI 2.0 this year. With this they'll completely replace the old MIDI stack and a few of the new improvements will also apply to MIDI 1, like better performance and multi-client streams.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/windows-music-dev/

Can you explain to a layman (in layman terms) what that means exactly? I was under the impression that MIDI 2.0 is handled by the respective audio software and hardware. Does the implementation have to do with class compliancy, and plug & play, so you don't need special drivers for your hardware or something?

I'm also no deep expert, but this is how I understand it: You mentioned class compliance. This means that you don't need extra drivers (plug & play), because your hardware is following a well defined standard interface that the default drivers can use. If you don't need any special features, this is nice because the driver is continuously developed by the OS people and you have a decent base quality.

For MIDI, the OS Driver I think cares about knowing how to get MIDI over USB and how to make it available again to other software. It could also do routing, monitoring. I think creating virtual MIDI devices is something they now want to ship out of the box.

[umd]

Always take in consideration your hardware/OS/driver combination.

I am pretty sure I won't be able to run my M-Audio Firewire Solo with TruePianos at 2ms latency if I install Windows 11 in that 2004 laptop. Luckily at the time those CPU's were upgradable.

[zerocrossing]

Always take in consideration your hardware/OS/driver combination.

I am pretty sure I won't be able to run my M-Audio Firewire Solo with TruePianos at 2ms latency if I install Windows 11 in that 2004 laptop. Luckily at the time those CPU's where upgradable.

I picked Windows 10 over 11 when I had this PC built for me because at that time UAD didn’t officially support 11. Now they do, so I figured I’d give it a shot. I failed, so that’s that. I’m not going to spend another minute on it. Too little benefit. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.

[audiojunkie]

I read that 11 has better audio performance than 10. I went with 10 when I built this machine because at the time, UAD didn’t support it, but now it does. I actually tried to upgrade, but it failed. No idea why. I’m wondering if it’s worth troubleshooting, or should I just punt and stick to 10.

Microsoft has an app that you can run to test the readiness of the hardware for the Windows 11 upgrade. If you don't meet the minimal requirements, such as TPM 2.0, for example, Microsoft prevents the installer from running on your system. You could run that and see if your system is up to spec.

If it turns out that your system is not compatible with Windows, I've seen some hacks mentioned on the internet that might allow you to get around the incompatibilities and still get the software to install.

If that fails, you can just keep using Windows 10 until October 14th of 2025 on line (when support ends), and then use it off line after that.

If that fails, there is still no need to junk your perfectly good working system. You can run Linux on it. It's not as scary as it used to be.

Either way, I don't see you running out of options for using your perfectly good hardware for a long, long time.

[audiojunkie]

I’ve given up. Not even updating from a USB image works. Thanks everyone, but I no longer care.

Why not back everything up, and try a clean install with a full Win 11 image? That might work. Maybe something is corrupt in your currently installed OS that is causing problems and preventing the install...

[audiojunkie]

I've heard that Windows 11 might get MIDI 2.0 this year. With this they'll completely replace the old MIDI stack and a few of the new improvements will also apply to MIDI 1, like better performance and multi-client streams.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/windows-music-dev/

It's possible. It would be nice. However, when Linux got Midi 2.0 a few months ago, I didn't notice any pros or cons either way. The same may happen with Windows.

[audiojunkie]

I've heard that Windows 11 might get MIDI 2.0 this year. With this they'll completely replace the old MIDI stack and a few of the new improvements will also apply to MIDI 1, like better performance and multi-client streams.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/windows-music-dev/

Can you explain to a layman (in layman terms) what that means exactly? I was under the impression that MIDI 2.0 is handled by the respective audio software and hardware. Does the implementation have to do with class compliancy, and plug & play, so you don't need special drivers for your hardware or something?

I'm also no deep expert, but this is how I understand it: You mentioned class compliance. This means that you don't need extra drivers (plug & play), because your hardware is following a well defined standard interface that the default drivers can use. If you don't need any special features, this is nice because the driver is continuously developed by the OS people and you have a decent base quality.

For MIDI, the OS Driver I think cares about knowing how to get MIDI over USB and how to make it available again to other software. It could also do routing, monitoring. I think creating virtual MIDI devices is something they now want to ship out of the box.

To further what Fannon was saying....

A "stack" is essentially layers of tools that allow something to do its job. The term is used frequently in Linux and is increasingly becoming more frequent in the world of Windows and MacOS. For example, a virtualization stack might be the use of the Intel vPro Platform, XWayland, KVM/QEMU, Libvirt, Virt-manager (or Cockpit), virt-viewer, and Spice. Don't worry about what these tools mean (it's not essential to the explanation). The important part to know is that more and more these days, software is developed in a modular fashion, and it all goes together to create a whole. That's what they mean by a "stack".

"Bloat" is when component parts are no longer needed, are too big and resource wasteful, or become old or out dated, while still remaining in the stack. Windows spent years on maintaining backwards compatibility with their APIs, which was a genius move, because the constantly growing amount of software allowed Windows to become the most popular OS on the market, even if it wasn't the best. This however, led to bloat that had to be remedied with Project Longhorn (or Chicago), and new APIs had to be written and it took Windows 3 more release versions before things got back to how it was originally intended to be. If you will recall, Windows Vista was a monster resource hog. Later versions went back and cleaned out the bloat and allowed things to run on much lighter hardware during the Windows 7-8.1 era. Windows 10 was what Windows Vista was originally meant to be, but it took a long while to get things cleaned up. As a side note, Windows is again growing in size and bloat--especially with Windows 11 and some of the new requirements (not all) are reflecting this.

But that brings us to the main point. Fannon is suggesting that Windows 11 may get an update that rewrites the "stack" of components that make up the Midi 1.0 functionality in Windows 11 and replace it with a new "stack" of components that cover the modern Midi 2.0 specifications, while cleaning out the bloat that was built up in the old Midi 1.0 stack, which would allow the new Midi 2.0 stack to run more efficiently.

I hope this helps explain things better.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, that Class Compliance doesn't really have anything to do with the Midi stack. Class Compliance is a standard that has been designed in such a way that generic USB drivers can be developed and kept/stored in the OS and ready to automatically install when that particular class of peripherals are plugged in. Or put more simply, when a class compliant piece of hardware is installed, such as a keyboard, a mouse, or an audio interface, the OS detects that it is class compliant, and automatically installs the drivers for it. It essentially makes the hardware plug-n-play.

[dellboy]

Waveform Pro 12 has three Windows audio settings (not asio) .................

1: Windows Audio

2: Windows Audio Exclusive Mode

3. - Windows Audio Low Latency Mode.

I am currently running Windows Audio at @ 144 samples (3.0 ms) with no crackles. Whether this has anything to do with improved Windows 11 audio performance, or clever programming on behalf of the waveform devs, I have no idea, but I guess I could uninstall my asio driver if I wanted to. I can also listen to Youtube while playing my keyboard, which is something I could not do with asio drivers.

[zerocrossing]

I read that 11 has better audio performance than 10. I went with 10 when I built this machine because at the time, UAD didn’t support it, but now it does. I actually tried to upgrade, but it failed. No idea why. I’m wondering if it’s worth troubleshooting, or should I just punt and stick to 10.

Microsoft has an app that you can run to test the readiness of the hardware for the Windows 11 upgrade. If you don't meet the minimal requirements, such as TPM 2.0, for example, Microsoft prevents the installer from running on your system. You could run that and see if your system is up to spec.

If it turns out that your system is not compatible with Windows, I've seen some hacks mentioned on the internet that might allow you to get around the incompatibilities and still get the software to install.

If that fails, you can just keep using Windows 10 until October 14th of 2025 on line (when support ends), and then use it off line after that.

If that fails, there is still no need to junk your perfectly good working system. You can run Linux on it. It's not as scary as it used to be.

Either way, I don't see you running out of options for using your perfectly good hardware for a long, long time.

Yeah, I ran that app and I got the green light to install 11. I tried a straight update and updating from a system running on a USB drive. It seems to get though the entire process and then when it goes to reboot it poops the bed and reverts. Research says something about a driver issue may be doing this, but I'm a little afraid of unplugging everything and then not being able to get everything working again. Mostly my Firewire card, which I need to use my audio interface. Maybe I'll give it another go at some point.

[audiojunkie]

I read that 11 has better audio performance than 10. I went with 10 when I built this machine because at the time, UAD didn’t support it, but now it does. I actually tried to upgrade, but it failed. No idea why. I’m wondering if it’s worth troubleshooting, or should I just punt and stick to 10.

Microsoft has an app that you can run to test the readiness of the hardware for the Windows 11 upgrade. If you don't meet the minimal requirements, such as TPM 2.0, for example, Microsoft prevents the installer from running on your system. You could run that and see if your system is up to spec.

If it turns out that your system is not compatible with Windows, I've seen some hacks mentioned on the internet that might allow you to get around the incompatibilities and still get the software to install.

If that fails, you can just keep using Windows 10 until October 14th of 2025 on line (when support ends), and then use it off line after that.

If that fails, there is still no need to junk your perfectly good working system. You can run Linux on it. It's not as scary as it used to be.

Either way, I don't see you running out of options for using your perfectly good hardware for a long, long time.

Yeah, I ran that app and I got the green light to install 11. I tried a straight update and updating from a system running on a USB drive. It seems to get though the entire process and then when it goes to reboot it poops the bed and reverts. Research says something about a driver issue may be doing this, but I'm a little afraid of unplugging everything and then not being able to get everything working again. Mostly my Firewire card, which I need to use my audio interface. Maybe I'll give it another go at some point.

If you got the green light from the program, then you should be able to download the Windows 11 ISO and completely rewrite over everything, for a completely clean install. This is probably the best way to go about it. Just make sure you have everything backed up.

[pljones]

If you got the green light from the program, then you should be able to download the Windows 11 ISO and completely rewrite over everything, for a completely clean install. This is probably the best way to go about it. Just make sure you have everything backed up.

And make sure those FireWire drivers install on Windows 10 before you clean install 11. If they won't install on 10, you're sunk anyway, so no point trying. (This is after the back-up, of course...)

[eLawnMust]

Windows 11 = Better Spyware Performance, Don't know why anybody would want it no matter what 'perceived' benefit...

[audiojunkie]

Just for the record, I’m a linux user (most know that already) But I respect people’s choices and wanted to be helpful.

[chk071]

Windows 11 = Better Spyware Performance

I just heard a brainfart.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

This is probably the best way to go about it. Just make sure you have everything backed up.

Best way to go about it is always a clean OS install to empty steel.

You will be able to place your drivers and tweak as you go for the optimal experience later. But I get it - it's not for everyone.

Have also never seen hardly anyone have a good experience with an inplace upgrade tho. Too many chances for failure. I have never done an inplace - always a clean install and have had no problems for years.

I did try 11 too just a month or two ago for my new 2024 DAW - but rolled back to Win 10 after several weeks of hard testing. It was simply not ready for prime time. May try again later in 2024.

VP