MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

EvilDragon wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:25 pm Each note on supports additional tuning parameter, so yes.
omg! thanks for the info

Post

Anybody else read MID 12 in the title? 8)

Post

imo it'll be the daws who have to lead the way, as they are the foundation of music making.

If the big names - steinberg, ableton, presonus and the likes make a good fist of it, then the rest will follow to take advantage.

Then they'll all start selling us upgrades galore.
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

Post

kevvvvv wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 pm imo it'll be the daws who have to lead the way, as they are the foundation of music making.

If the big names - steinberg, ableton, presonus and the likes make a good fist of it, then the rest will follow to take advantage.

Then they'll all start selling us upgrades galore.
lol, unfortunately that is exactly what I thought after reading about MIDI2, the likes of Steinberg will be thinking about how they will implement it and over how many updates. If it was just a one time thing into a new version of the DAW say Cubase 11, then that would be good. But I reckon as MIDI 2 improves, and people latch onto it, it will for more and more point updates and versions to match it.

Sad that we are so jaded towards these companies now. Only image line stand tall in this area.
Don't trust those with words of weakness, they are the most aggressive

Post

I don't mind paying if I get genuine improvements in functionality that I can regularly use.

So if Studio One brought v5 with a MIDI2 implementation - supported by decent pro-quality reviews - and wanted £50 for the upgrade I'd pay it, no problem.

I can see a competitive situation where all the daws would be bragging about how their MIDI2 implementation offers more, is more comprehensive etc and using this to persuade users to migrate.

So hopefully it'd be in their interest to keep upgrade prices low.

Any daw that charged excessively for the upgrade (eg a super super super version) would be quickly undercut by competitors wanting to nick their user base.

Or am I being over optimistic :D
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

Post

LeVzi wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:29 am
kevvvvv wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 pmIf the big names - steinberg, ableton, presonus and the likes make a good fist of it, then the rest will follow to take advantage.
the likes of Steinberg will be thinking about how they will implement it and over how many updates. If it was just a one time thing into a new version of the DAW say Cubase 11, then that would be good. But I reckon as MIDI 2 improves, and people latch onto it, it will for more and more point updates and versions to match it.
In fairness there is a lot they can do with it. A basic "raw" implementation would be easiest, which would only use MIDI 2 with any plugins and hardware aware of it.

My main concern is how (or even IF) they integrate it with host automation, because that would allow present day virtual instruments to take advantage of MIDI 2, with the right controllers, without the plugins necessarily needing to be MIDI 2 aware themselves. This would also see MIDI 2 take off much quicker, as there would already be plenty of software to use it with.

Hosts could also choose to integrate it into the DAW functions, so things like mixer control functions could be natively mapped to surfaces - without the need for workaround protocols like Mackie control etc. So it won't be "just" a case of adding a new protocol - if they're going to make good use of it.

My main worry is some of these companies have entrenched hardware interests, and may choose not to use the full potential offered because it might threaten any existing hardware interests. I hope companies, like Native Instruments, are paying attention here, and stand ready to step in whether or not the likes of Yamaha Steinberg start dragging their feet.

Post

I doubt Ableton will do anything, they can't even support aftertouch or MIDI channels within a single clip for years now. :D

Post

kevvvvv wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 pm If the big names - steinberg, ableton, presonus and the likes make a good fist of it, then the rest will follow to take advantage.
Still waiting for Presonus to support MIDI 1.0 in Studio One. Maybe they’ll just skip it and go straight to 2.

Post

pottering wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:39 pm
cron wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:38 pm or the troubles Live has with complete PDC implementation.
So Ableton had to choose, either those devices were latency-compensated and then would get out of sync with the generators (since latency compensation would delay their start, even affecting/delaying actual MIDI notes in the case of modulated MIDI FX), or those devices keep synced to the transport and start with it (which gets them out of sync with delayed audio from plugins with latency, which is the problem people complain of now).
you know, logic has an option for latency compensation.
when i use it live, i disable all latency compensation so each chain is as fast as possible.
when i mix, i wouldn't do that.

so they didn't have to choose anything, as for playback, it wouldn't get out of sync because everything is delayed accordingly, and you could still turn it off for live performance.
Image

Post

Ploki wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:58 pm
pottering wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:39 pm
cron wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:38 pm or the troubles Live has with complete PDC implementation.
So Ableton had to choose, either those devices were latency-compensated and then would get out of sync with the generators (since latency compensation would delay their start, even affecting/delaying actual MIDI notes in the case of modulated MIDI FX), or those devices keep synced to the transport and start with it (which gets them out of sync with delayed audio from plugins with latency, which is the problem people complain of now).
you know, logic has an option for latency compensation.
when i use it live, i disable all latency compensation so each chain is as fast as possible.
when i mix, i wouldn't do that.

so they didn't have to choose anything, as for playback, it wouldn't get out of sync because everything is delayed accordingly, and you could still turn it off for live performance.

You CAN'T delay such modulators, if you delay a LFO modulator it will start (let's say, 120 ms) late, while a instrument it modulates will start immediately with the transport.

You want those modulators to start immediately with the main transport, together with the synths and other stuff it modulates.

Note that Live's modulators can modulate up to 10 parameters, and those can be in a MIDI FX, in a synth and in a audio FX, AT THE SAME TIME.

How you compensate delay in a device that is modulating a synth and a latency inducing plugin in the same track at the same time?

I mean, you can delay it, but then it gets out of sync anyways, but with the synth instead of the latency-inducing audio FX.

Post

PAK wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:20 pmIt holds the potential to be huge for virtual instruments.
How so? Your VSTi aren't limited by the MIDI spec, your host of choice already works with infinitely greater precision than MIDI offers. It's only when you go outside of your DAW environment that it becomes a limitation.
retroactivecont wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:25 pmWill MPE be a standard with MIDI 2.0?
I hope not. It feels like a massive kludge already, hopefully MIDI2 will have a more elegant solution than using 16 MIDI channels for one instrument. I imagine it will have a lot more channels than 16 but you get the gist of what I'm saying, right? A way of doing MPE on a single MIDI channel would be far more elegant.
kevvvvv wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:45 pmimo it'll be the daws who have to lead the way, as they are the foundation of music making.

If the big names - steinberg, ableton, presonus and the likes make a good fist of it, then the rest will follow to take advantage.
I'm not seeing why I should care. I can't think of any situation I have been in since I moved ITB where MIDI has held me back. I see it as largely irrelevant to the way I work now.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

You kids and all your new fangled ideas...

Post

pottering wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:40 am
You CAN'T delay such modulators, if you delay a LFO modulator it will start (let's say, 120 ms) late, while a instrument it modulates will start immediately with the transport.

You want those modulators to start immediately with the main transport, together with the synths and other stuff it modulates.

Note that Live's modulators can modulate up to 10 parameters, and those can be in a MIDI FX, in a synth and in a audio FX, AT THE SAME TIME.

How you compensate delay in a device that is modulating a synth and a latency inducing plugin in the same track at the same time?

I mean, you can delay it, but then it gets out of sync anyways, but with the synth instead of the latency-inducing audio FX.
Yeah okay, that makes sense... I think
Image

Post

Warren
I see it as largely irrelevant to the way I work now.
You've said that for as long as I've known you, and usually because you're a very organised guy musically, so fair enough.

For example, as new synths come around, you get them - but in your own time, and with caution, as you're v committed to what you're doing already.

You're just slower to adopt other people's ideas, as you already have so many of your own on the go.

Is this fair to say?
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

Post

MIDI2, a.k.a. Duke Nukem Never.

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”