OK, someone needs to make it clear we're all using the same settings. I see people using different INIT patches, some using 8 notes playing simultaneously while others use an 8 note arp (this one makes a HUGE difference), ....
With 8 notes simultaneously and the INIT patch (the one just named INIT), I could get up to 12 tracks in both Live and Bitwig.
With an arp I tested up to 64 tracks and my CPU was only a little over 60%.
This is on an Intel i7-8700 and 16GB RAM.
What we need is a project file containing ONE track with Diva loaded with the correct INIT patch and the correct notes for playing. Anyone can then duplicate this track as much as their CPU can handle it.
Completely baffling and amazing CPU behavior with Bitwig 3!
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- KVRian
- 992 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas
Okay, per Reefius:
Eight-note-held - 16 instances Multicore on; 10 MC off.
Eight-note-arp - 119 instances Multicore on; 121 MC off.
INIT preset used, all else same as my prior post.
I'm sure I could get better performance if I closed everything else, but that's real world for me. What I'd really like to try is another interface with USB-C, Firewire or T-bolt. This would likely make a big difference. With Linux though, I'll have to wait.
Eight-note-held - 16 instances Multicore on; 10 MC off.
Eight-note-arp - 119 instances Multicore on; 121 MC off.
INIT preset used, all else same as my prior post.
I'm sure I could get better performance if I closed everything else, but that's real world for me. What I'd really like to try is another interface with USB-C, Firewire or T-bolt. This would likely make a big difference. With Linux though, I'll have to wait.
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- KVRian
- 988 posts since 10 Sep, 2014
Why the heck do you need to leave 200+ firefox tabs open? 559 processes? Are you sharing your system with all your neighborhood?
I'm just curious.
My 2 music pcs never go online.
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- KVRian
- 992 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas
Well, of late, I discovered Docker--which is nothing new, rather it's decently mature right now--and so I dove in. Many of those tabs are RTFM. It's partly work, partly personal.
Btw, since Firefox got containers, It's become real easy and stable to have hundreds of tabs open--each isolated if you want! In fact, there's an extension called "Temporary Containers" which makes it automatic ... Killer feature.
Yeah, 559 processes is a lot, yet it's only twice what a normal Linux desktop might be running at a given time. Most of those processes are idle. Still, my previous workstation would shutter at that point.
That said, I'm pretty convinced server hardware is worth the price. My proc sits around ~32-35c. It rarely sees 40c, even under stress. The case is 3U high and about 18" deep. There's four fans in total; both case and CPU fans are Noctua; the remaining are integrated PSU and GPU. It's the quietest build I've ever had, which is what I seriously wanted. This is partly why I selected a lower clock speed proc. As a result, I can now use a condenser mic in the same room, without having to pad off -15 to -20db! It's like the future I once hoped for finally arrived.
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
Also, used dual-CPU Xeons can be pretty good deals often, since they tend to have ridiculous amounts of memory like 64gb or something, I've had my eye on these lately.
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- KVRian
- 988 posts since 10 Sep, 2014
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- KVRian
- 992 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas
From my reading, AVX came since Sandy Bridge. I see my proc has it. I've never looked it up before and so I'm curious to learn more.
Any reason in particular you mention it?
... Hmm, there's also mention it could be a speculative attack vector.
Any reason in particular you mention it?
... Hmm, there's also mention it could be a speculative attack vector.
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- KVRian
- 988 posts since 10 Sep, 2014
Grid modules compile in real time depending on your processor and maybe avx instructions make things faster + MassiveX only runs on avx cpus. I discovered this the hard way since at the time that I bought it one of my cpus (i7 920) could not run it.
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 11 Dec, 2002 from Los Angeles
Interesting. Where did you learn about the real time complication?
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- KVRian
- 988 posts since 10 Sep, 2014
Someone here on the board mentioned it and btw it's compiled at runtime and not realtime, like I wrote.
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 11 Dec, 2002 from Los Angeles
Hehe. Look again at what you wrote.
But yeah in this run time or real time it means about the same here. If they do in fact do that it would be a pretty ingenious implementation because the Grid is very responsive to patch changes. It responds instantly. Most runtime compilation systems I know have a certain amount of latency due to compilation.
I think more likely they populate a graph with precompiled objects.
But yeah in this run time or real time it means about the same here. If they do in fact do that it would be a pretty ingenious implementation because the Grid is very responsive to patch changes. It responds instantly. Most runtime compilation systems I know have a certain amount of latency due to compilation.
I think more likely they populate a graph with precompiled objects.
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
Support mentioned this in one email, when you load a device, it's compiled with local optimisation. For the Grid, yes, I think they somehow precompile the objects. You can actually see this especially when you load big presets, a notification info about compiling will appear in the upper right hand corner.
This all with a i7 6700, quality in Diva "great". Memory does not seem to be an issue, since each instance uses only around 64mb of memory.
7 64 bit, 8 instances of the "init" patch playing a 8th note repeated same note pattern at 110 BPM, 44.1khz, 1024 sample buffer, Behringer UMC 1820. Same with every instance playing 8 notes simultaneously, 7 instances.
This was plugins hosted by manyfacturer, multicore OFF from Diva. CPU spikes started to appear above a certain amount of notes much before CPU was close to max, I think this might have had to do with multithreading overhead or something, since they disappeared completely when there were no more than 6 or so instances playing.
When I turned multicore ON on Diva's settings and plugin hosting to "by plugin" in Bitwig, I could get some more instances, but really early on, a lot of CPU spikes.
Best performance I got with Diva's multicore OFF and hosting in BW "by plugin", somewhere between 50 and 60 instances playing the init patch 8th note pattern. Each instance playing 8 held notes I got around 7 instances before getting some spikes, altough in general DSP meter was still at around 60% load. Again, altough with one instance turning multicore to ON in Diva's settings cut down DSP load by 50%, when I added more instances I got worse performance than with OFF.
So it seems it's best to let BW handle plugin voices, and definitely have hosting "by plugin". The interesting find here is, that with BW having plugins hosted "by manufacturer", the max number of instances is the same, around 7, no matter the amount of voices playing.
Also, even with that 50-60 instances playing, DSP meter wasn't close to peaking, but there were those spikes that seemed to worsen as the number of instances grew.
This all with a i7 6700, quality in Diva "great". Memory does not seem to be an issue, since each instance uses only around 64mb of memory.
7 64 bit, 8 instances of the "init" patch playing a 8th note repeated same note pattern at 110 BPM, 44.1khz, 1024 sample buffer, Behringer UMC 1820. Same with every instance playing 8 notes simultaneously, 7 instances.
This was plugins hosted by manyfacturer, multicore OFF from Diva. CPU spikes started to appear above a certain amount of notes much before CPU was close to max, I think this might have had to do with multithreading overhead or something, since they disappeared completely when there were no more than 6 or so instances playing.
When I turned multicore ON on Diva's settings and plugin hosting to "by plugin" in Bitwig, I could get some more instances, but really early on, a lot of CPU spikes.
Best performance I got with Diva's multicore OFF and hosting in BW "by plugin", somewhere between 50 and 60 instances playing the init patch 8th note pattern. Each instance playing 8 held notes I got around 7 instances before getting some spikes, altough in general DSP meter was still at around 60% load. Again, altough with one instance turning multicore to ON in Diva's settings cut down DSP load by 50%, when I added more instances I got worse performance than with OFF.
So it seems it's best to let BW handle plugin voices, and definitely have hosting "by plugin". The interesting find here is, that with BW having plugins hosted "by manufacturer", the max number of instances is the same, around 7, no matter the amount of voices playing.
Also, even with that 50-60 instances playing, DSP meter wasn't close to peaking, but there were those spikes that seemed to worsen as the number of instances grew.
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
Btw the way to load that init patch is really esoteric, I have to be in the preset browser under the templates category, and then left click on the preset quick select bar on top part of Diva's GUI. That's the only way I got it to show up...
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- KVRian
- 505 posts since 1 Jul, 2009
8 note chord with Diva init preset:
Taika-Kim i7 6700: 7 instances.
Me i7 4771: 8 instances.
A friend, with the same CPU i7 4771 also 7 instances.
And here is OP, machinesworking with an "inferior" laptop CPU, I7-3820QM, is getting 14 instances. Please someone explain this. What's so special about that CPU that it can handle so many.
machinesworking, could you post a screenshot please, with the 14 instances running?
I'm just curious, these CPU's are roughly the same, have the same core counts so the instances should be similar.
Taika-Kim i7 6700: 7 instances.
Me i7 4771: 8 instances.
A friend, with the same CPU i7 4771 also 7 instances.
And here is OP, machinesworking with an "inferior" laptop CPU, I7-3820QM, is getting 14 instances. Please someone explain this. What's so special about that CPU that it can handle so many.
machinesworking, could you post a screenshot please, with the 14 instances running?
I'm just curious, these CPU's are roughly the same, have the same core counts so the instances should be similar.
