Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

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EnochLight wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:02 pm
metaside wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:48 pm I'm still on v1.4.10 and I only had the codemeter version in my account last time I checked - is there a newer non-codemeter version and is it available somewhere? Not a prob if not, just asking.
I think you have to contact Rene at VPS support to get this handled.
Thanks! I found the changelog and seems like the version I got is it.
Some music with visuals and mixed tutorials related to game dev and sound design: https://www.youtube.com/@MetasideOfficial

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msvs wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:06 am I give up talking and talking and talking to some guys here. I kept up for almost 750 pages, not bad :lol: . So for technical questions, hypothetical philosophies and bugs, please write the regular support like in a normal use-case scenario. Please feel free to quote this on every page. I will only post news and updates here. Who wants to communicate directly with me can visit our FB group, (if you don't use FB, then you cant - just to pre-answer the obvious). Next post of me will be Cinematic 3. And now all is left to say: "Happy Xmas to all!" from Germany :) :party:
I gave up years ago.
I started promoting my skins at first. Reactions were very positive, that turned also into insults later on.
The community on some topics here is very immature.
I don't even promote here anymore.
The anonymity makes people behave bad and childish.
I'm also on FB with my skins and expansions and get all the appreciation and respect that is needed.
Mostly because it's not anonymous.
Good decision Manuel.
I was wondering in your place why you kept on putting energy in here.
My sounddesign: Synth1/Ex5/D-50 patches https://goo.gl/zE3pkk
My stuff: W10x64i7 15" laptop, Reaper/Cantabile3+Synth1+Avenger on stage+NordStage2+Samson Graphite 49
Loving new VPS Avenger! Check my skins! https://goo.gl/MBNJHj

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Sales? Marketing? Good will towards customers here?

Could be reasons for a dev to post, lots do so. Others hate FB, lots of different tastes around, thankfully.

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I just ordered the Maat stick v3. Let's hope it works out as a Dongle for Avenger.
I will post results when I have it.

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Hmm, I don't think this is going to go down well at all. Just got this from Rene, in reply to me asking "so sounds like we just need to remember to run VMAN standalone once in a while"?
Correct. Avenger will send you a notification 4 weeks before the date.
Its beginning to feel like legitimate users will be sent nags for eternity and prompts for action just to keep the thing running. It's hardly the end of the world, but CP shouldn't be this intrusive. They should code this as an automatic background task within Avenger when running to call home - if unsuccesful, there's no action taken, and then only after then might you get a 4 week warning. (obviously with all this to be seamless and low-resources).
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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Yes, calling home automatically and then resetting the timer, would be a user friendly thing to do.

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msvs wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:06 am I give up talking and talking and talking to some guys here. I kept up for almost 750 pages, not bad :lol: . So for technical questions, hypothetical philosophies and bugs, please write the regular support like in a normal use-case scenario. Please feel free to quote this on every page. I will only post news and updates here. Who wants to communicate directly with me can visit our FB group, (if you don't use FB, then you cant - just to pre-answer the obvious). Next post of me will be Cinematic 3. And now all is left to say: "Happy Xmas to all!" from Germany :) :party:
I assume you're not here to read this, but I apologize for not joyously accepting your decision to implement CodeMeter after inducing me to spend $305 (now completely wasted*) on Avenger and some expansions by specifically stating that Avenger used a keyfile copy protection system. I have never disputed that Vengeance (and every other developer) has the right to implement any CP method it wants from the start, so I guess it's just rude of me not to just happily defer when Vengeance decides to change a fundamental basis of the transaction after it has my money as well.

* I recognize that I can still use 1.4 and that Vengeance never specifically promised it wouldn't change CP methods at some point. But I never would have purchased Avenger at all had I known there was even a possibility that Vengeance would move to CodeMeter, and the experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth. Indeed, I have left the Antares / Autotune ecosystem for the same reason.

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Yeah this does not leave a good impression. I think the criticism that he got here was completely justified. The most infuriating thing is that he would just ignore a lot of comments and act as if there is no problem, or as if it's just a minor issue. I personally would have been fine with this if I could have gotten a clear statement from him that it will be possible to activate 1.4.10 in the future. But he ignored that paragraph so I have to assume there might come a time when that will not be possible anymore. Pretty jarring how he would respond when I ask him if I can buy more expansions for the old version. This sucks big time, as I really wanted to get a few more expansions, and then suddenly, I can't, and don't know if I can even keep using my old version in the future. I mean who treats their customers like this, seriously? And what's the big deal about it anyway. All I want to buy from him is available pirated, but I want to buy it from him, so why does he act like this? Pretty ridiculous honestly. And then he says "I give up talking and talking and talking to some guys here" as if the problem is his customers' complaints, and not his poor business practice and mistakes. Under these circumstances I will consider selling my license. Avenger is a beast and it rocks but it's not as if I can't produce music with other synths from developers with way more reasonable attitudes and policies.

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Hiding behind the protection of facebook to control and eliminate negative feedback and even banning users from complaining on there... will fluctuate negative opinion elsewhere. You can't run and hide from the internet if you are on it.... so you must at all times be transparent, open and receptive to user feedback and that of the customer who buys your product. Shifting the goalposts and running away when people complain speaks volumes.... If you do wrong by the customer, you essentially risk being effectively black listed by online communities... Lose that trust and you will have a hard time ever getting that back if ever...
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This thread takes more than two years and when the criticism begins the first thing they do is leave and send you to Facebook, where they can censor you.

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All I can suggest is that those with issues email support and post what replies you get here. That seems to be the way now.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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noiseboyuk wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:16 pm All I can suggest is that those with issues email support and post what replies you get here. That seems to be the way now.
Short thread then. Got no response at all despite trying multiple times.

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I've had an issue where if I load Avenger before the Codemeter Server is running - the factory presets and synthstruments are not available - they have a red circle with a line through.
I just have to wait until the Codemeter Server is up and running (not that long - maybe 1 minute)- and everything is fine.

I've been in contact with Rene though - and apart from implying that I might have had a cracked version (they like to do that - don't they?) he's been quick to get back, and trying to be helpful.

So the lesson is - make sure that Codemeter thing is running in your system tray - before you load a project with Avenger in it ;)
John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.

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HSum wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:31 pm
noiseboyuk wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:16 pm All I can suggest is that those with issues email support and post what replies you get here. That seems to be the way now.
Short thread then. Got no response at all despite trying multiple times.
Who are you emailing? I've had one every time, nearly always within 24hrs. Manuel seems to use info@vengeance-sound.com, Rene for more technical stuff is keilwerth@vengeance-sound.com . I've just noticed nicole@vengeance-sound.com is down as Billing and License Transfers which might be relevant to some.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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I agree with those that are deeply disappointed by V.1.5.0 forcing loyal and honest customers to connect their computers to the Internet every 90 days. This is more than annoying. But, in order to be fair to René and Manuel: Nexus 3 forces you to do so every 30 days (and therefore will not be interesting for me as well).

I have always been a big, big fan of Avenger - it simply IS one of the best synths out there. But as regards this new version (and I am only talking about that one "feature"), I don't feel appreciated as a customer anymore and, like TekSonic already said, I understand that I have to move on. There are lots of other fantastic synthesizers that let me do what I am really interested in: make music instead of dealing with computer or license administration issues.
Of course, I will continue using Avenger 1.4 - for which I own lots of XPs (that, like the synth, I officially and legally bought, BTW) - every now and then, but that's it.

Manuel - who I give a lot of respect and who has always offered his advice and help in the most polite way whenever I had a question - should really ask himself if his reaction to some customers' criticism was adequate. If customers give their feedback saying that this "calling home thing" does not work for them and makes the synth more difficult to use for them, then a company should at least accept and respect this kind of feedback - at least. At best, the company might consider possible solutions. Of course, it is their right to protect their software. But just saying, "That's the way it is, if you don't like it, then that's your problem," is - to my mind - not respectful behaviour towards loyal and honest customers.

[To be honest and fair again, I haven't read all the posts, and therefore do not know if some forum members were indeed impolite and rude in their wording.]

Why not give customers a choice? I have just had a look at the xils lab website. For every product, the customer can choose between downloading EITHER the USB-eLicenser version OR the iLok version (and here again: soft iLok or dongle).

Vengeance Sound do use the eLicenser for some of their products (I know because I own some of them, and this is because I officially and legally bought them). So why not offering an eLicenser version of Avenger and a CM version (soft or hardware)? Or offering a regular CM version and a more expensive version that does not "call home"?

As I see it, there will be two different kinds of Avenger users in the future:
- 1.4.x users (that are happy with the XPs they have)
- 1.5.x + users (those that are forced to be connected to the Internet).

Therefore I have got another question to 3rd party sound designers (like Banshaw, or others) and to skin designers like Stefken and godly:
Will you be offering your future soundsets/skins for both Avenger versions?

I am really sad about the developers' decision. But at the end of the day, it is their company and business.
As I said, Avenger is a really great synth.

PS, just out of curiousity: Are there any other major plug-ins that "call home" every X days (one-click online activation does not count and is okay IMO)?

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