Any VST Synth VS Oberheim OB-6

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Stokely wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:26 pm No doubt though there is a law of diminishing returns on hardware keyboard, as with cars and most other things. Getting just a bit more "quality" or functionality starts rocketing up in cost.
Just wanted to address this. As long as analog hardware is considered collectable, and at this point I see no indication that this won't be true. The law of diminishing returns isn't going to apply.

Anecdotally I have three hardware synths:

I bought a Memorymoog for $1000 when I was a kid used. It sold originally for around $2300, they regularly go for 6k broken and up to 25K depending on whether they have the Lintronics mod or not etc.

Bought an Oberheim Xpander around 2008 for $2,300. It sells for about $3,800 to 5,400 on eBay now.

Bought a Metasonix Wretch Machine For dirt cheap in a package deal. There's exactly one on eBay right now, for $4,000.

This isn't to brag, but if you're looking at the OB-6 and thinking that a true analog with the amount of integration into a DAW that it has is going to go down in value you're mistaken. I don't personally believe this, but a lot of people think true analog oscillators, filters and distortion will never be exactly emulated in software, and with that in mind, hardware that uses those components is not going to diminish in value the way a DX7 did.

I compare this to my soft synths, and some are just horrible investments, they're fantastic when it comes to sound, but they do not offer much backwards compatibility, (new versions that don't load where the old one did etc.), and there's no guarantee that the company stays around in case OS X or Windows versions break some old code etc. Had I bought into digital hardware synths I would agree, since there's no logical reason a digital synth can't be emulated with 100% accuracy.

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e-crooner wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:44 pm Never had anything from Yamaha, so I don't know where they make their stuff and how reliable it is.
One of the things I respect about Yamaha is that they do not outsource any of their manufacturing...

Anything that is released by Yamaha,is engineered by Yamaha,manufactured in a Yamaha factory with QC from Yamaha...

Most of their engineering and QC is direct from Yamaha in Japan...

Yamaha is a huge corporation with diverse interests,but with whatever product you chose,you can be guaranteed of getting something that is designed,engineered and manufactured to a high degree of specification...

Solid bang for the buck too $$$

Over the years,I have come to appreciate the quality and reliabilty that Yamaha brings to the table,so many of the main pieces in my music making world come with the Big Y stamped on them...

I know that the letter Y is getting close to the end of the line in alphabetic terms,but in the audio world,Yamaha should be near the top of your list,because it would always be a very smart choice :wink:
No auto tune...

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vurt wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:42 pm i like my hardware because most of it has no recall, theres a certain feeling i get from knowing, if i switch off, then come back in an hour and switch back on, without touching any controls, i may never hear the exact sound again 8)

that "living in the moment" is something i enjoy, not everyone will.
Sure, that was the one thing about my hardware that I loved. Especially the stuff that had no patch memory. But I can do that with software if I want. Most synths have a default patch that comes up when you turn it on. The thing with me though is that as I'm more into writing songs than turning knobs and sliders (even virtual ones) I don't really have the "time" to go fooling around with things. In fact, as I've pretty much programmed every sound I need over these years, I pretty much just pull up presets now. I guess you can say I've gotten lazy in that respect. Maybe age does that to you. I don't know. I did have more fun when I was younger just making noises with my Moogs, ARPs and Yamahas.

But that was a long time ago. And even then, I still hated all the audio cables and shit laying around. Stuff was always getting tangled. Mind you, I had way too many synths. Thank God I had the money to buy them (had a good job then) or there is no way I could have afforded all that. These days, being retired and on a fixed income, I can't spend money the way I used to. So soft synths give me a ridiculous bang for the buck. I could list my top 10 favorite synths and all of them together wouldn't come close to $2,000 in total.

That's something that's difficult to do with hardware as I think the cheapest synths I ever got were at least $1,200.

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Regarding backward compatibility, I think most brand names maintain their software products for a decade or so. How far does one have to be able to go back in time with a DAW project?

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wagtunes wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:23 pm I'm 62. And I grew up in a world of hardware going all the way back to 1977 when I got my first synth. In fact, up until 2014, all I had was hardware, buying synths constantly. I'd dare say I probably owned more hardware synths than 90% of the people here.

And I'm telling you straight out, and I was totally against going to in the box, I was blown away by the sound quality of the top soft synths. And since I don't play live (only record my songs) I can honestly say that, within the context of a recording (wav file, mp3, whatever) my software synths take no backseat to my hardware synths. In some instances, they surpass the hardware.
I guess I'm the pioneer type. I started off playing in a band with a Mac + and an Ensonique Mirage in the late 80's. I got an Emax II in the late 90's and a mac clone to sequence it with.
around 2000 I got DP, and Reason 1.0, hardware became ancillary, it was another 5 years before I went back to using the moog.
To this day I still use mostly software, but I like hardware, I still own some, and use it all the time. After 20 years of moving knobs on a screen or spending hours setting up soft synths to react to my MIDI controllers like hardware does only to have the company abandon it, (Kore, Automap, etc. etc.), it's just nice to have hardware that doesn't need any of that.
To that end, I will never go back to buying expensive hardware ever again. It is not even close to being worth it go me.
That's of course valid. I couldn't afford my Memorymoog if I were to buy it today, and would be happy enough with Diva. Oh and to the point, I still use Diva, it's a flavor, it might be trying to emulate old analog gear etc. but I end up writing patches on it that are different than I do on the Moog or Xpander, mostly cleaner punchier sounds etc.

I have a friend who gets obsessed with a synth, it was Absynth at one point and now it's Hive. He will use pretty much only Hive on tracks and you really can't tell, it's not like his sound suffers because of it.

I feel like you're doing a bit of the old "what will the neighbors think?" here. Because a synth is $3,000 and some people buy it doesn't make your synths any less powerful. The cheapness of your synths also doesn't invalidate the OB-6.

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digitalboytn wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:28 pm
e-crooner wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:44 pm Never had anything from Yamaha, so I don't know where they make their stuff and how reliable it is.
One of the things I respect about Yamaha is that they do not outsource any of their manufacturing...

Anything that is released by Yamaha,is engineered by Yamaha,manufactured in a Yamaha factory with QC from Yamaha...

Most of their engineering and QC is direct from Yamaha in Japan...

Yamaha is a huge corporation with diverse interests,but with whatever product you chose,you can be guaranteed of getting something that is designed,engineered and manufactured to a high degree of specification...

Solid bang for the buck too $$$

Over the years,I have come to appreciate the quality and reliabilty that Yamaha brings to the table,so many of the main pieces in my music making world come with the Big Y stamped on them...

I know that the letter Y is getting close to the end of the line in alphabetic terms,but in the audio world,Yamaha should be near the top of your list,because it would always be a very smart choice :wink:
Good to know. Unfortunately they don't seem to make Midi controller keyboards.

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e-crooner wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:37 pm Regarding backward compatibility, I think most brand names maintain their software products for a decade or so. How far does one have to be able to go back in time with a DAW project?
I have a 1978 Gibson Les Paul Pro I bought in 1998 for $450.
Software fades over time, needs updates that cost money, goes extinct etc.
It's a good reminder to go through old projects and print to audio.

I'm not trying to dog software. A Fairlight CMI, Xpander, 24 track tape deck, etc. etc. the basic set up of a high powered electronic studio like what guys like Vangelis etc. had in the 70's and 80's cost upwards of $200,000.00 This is probably emulated on a computer for about $2K (or realistically 5-10K for a comparable set up)

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A couple of Youtube vids later, i must say that the OB-6 really sounds great. I would take it, if somebody gifted it to me. ;)

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chk071 wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:10 pm A couple of Youtube vids later, i must say that the OB-6 really sounds great. I would take it, if somebody gifted it to me. ;)
Not that I think it sounds bad or anything like that, but if somebody gifted it to me, I'd sell it. I have no room for one more keyboard in this house. I barely have room for what I have now. Hell, I've got stuff in the basement that I really should sell but I'm too lazy too.

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TBH, I wouldn't know where I would put it at the moment as well. But... I'm sure I'd find a place. Would make a good MIDI controller as well, I guess. ;)

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Using a $3k synth as a mere Midi controller is kind of an insult :)

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True... :lol:

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If you must give that synth to me for Christmas, please add a good amp and quality speakers as well :hihi:

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machinesworking wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:49 pm
e-crooner wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:37 pm Regarding backward compatibility, I think most brand names maintain their software products for a decade or so. How far does one have to be able to go back in time with a DAW project?
I have a 1978 Gibson Les Paul Pro I bought in 1998 for $450.
Software fades over time, needs updates that cost money, goes extinct etc.
No I'm sorry you're very wrong here, don't do over generalizations on things that simply are not true in all the cases:
Software fades over time
It doesn't, there are virtual machines and I know I can continue using that software even for decades if needed.
needs updates that cost money
Uh no, some companies offers even lifetime free updates; where is your paid upgrade?

Also again I can continue using the same software with virtual machines if necessary with some not-restrictive OS.
goes extinct etc
No it doesn't, I have my products and my keys saved in my external hard drive and in any case if I want to install the same compatible OS and virtual machine in my future pc It continues being there, is not eternal, but it could outlive me easily.

I had to, with all respect.

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e-crooner wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:37 pm Regarding backward compatibility, I think most brand names maintain their software products for a decade or so. How far does one have to be able to go back in time with a DAW project?
Ask the question to BONES.
:wink:
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
I'm now severely diseased since September 2018.

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