The Big Guitar Amp Sim Roundup + Review

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Anderton wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:20 pm NATIVE INSTRUMENTS GUITAR RIG 5

It would be a mistake to dismiss Guitar Rig 5 because there hasn’t been a Guitar Rig 6. Yes, amp sims from other companies have eclipsed Guitar Rig in some ways—IK AmpliTube and Overloud TH3 offer more gear options, Scuffham S-Gear has a more refined sound quality, Waves’ Supermodel amps are unusually responsive, Line 6 Helix has four parallel audio paths, etc. But there’s a lot that NI got right with Guitar Rig at the outset.
I agree, GR5 is still totally usable and very capable. I've done lots of tests, comparisons. Hopefully, someday, with more spare time, I might shoot videos and upload all my tests to YT. Anyway, the amp and FX part of GR5 quite often rivals the competition. But the built-in cabs are quite good too. AFAIK, these are handpicked IRs from the RedWirez collection, which was also used in GTR3 and S-Gear. But with the right 3rd party impulse response Guitar Rig 5 sounds brilliant. It also has some settings for the power amp, which are not 100% spot on, but close enough to be useful.

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guitarzan wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:21 pm ]I don't think amp sims even come close to modeling the nonlinear stuff tube amps do when they are pushed well beyond their design limits — power amp sag and recovery, output transformer saturation, speaker motional impedance, cab & speaker compression/limiting/distortion, etc. Some amp simulations attempt to do sag or whatever, but it's usually pretty weak. Most stuff always sounded great on even the first generation modelers, but if you try to push into Neil Young or garage band territory the sims still don't even attempt to get you there IMHO. Those kind of dynamics are just not represented in any useful way yet.
Not all of them. Quite a few ampsims do approximate poweramp emulation, namely:
  • Amplion by Audiffex,
  • BIAS Amp by Positive Grid,
  • Guitar Rig by NI,
  • PRS Supermodels by Waves
  • TH-U by Overloud and last, but not least
  • ReValver 4by Peavey.
This particular amp is no joke when it comes to the power amp emulation. It has:
  • Cabinet impedance interaction settings.
RV4.png
  • Tweak schematic option, where you can change elements and their values, including tolerance!
RV4_2.PNG
AND if you try to simply swap power amp tubes like in TH-U or BIAS Amp, it won't work, until you bias them properly. Just like in a real tube amp!
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Last edited by Soundwise on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Soundwise wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:35 pm Quite a few ampsims do approximate poweramp emulation, namely:
  • Amplion by AAudiffex,
  • BIAS Amp by Positive Grid,
  • Guitar Rig by NI,
  • PRS Supermodels by Waves
  • TH-U by Overloud and last, but not least
  • ReValver 4by Peavey.
This particular amp is no joke when it comes to the power amp emulation. It has:
  • Cabinet impedance interaction settings.
  • Tweak schematic option, where you can change elements and their values, including tolerance!
AND if you try to simply swap power amp tubes like in TH-U or BIAS Amp, it won't work, until you bias them properly. Just like in a real tube amp!
I know they all try to emulate power amp behavior to a point, but not beyond that point, and I was specifically thinking of ReValver, since I was a tester for a couple versions (before and after Peavey) and I know exactly at what point they gave up and why. I was also a tester for other amp sims (several), and at least one other ended their power amp simulation at almost the same place.

Pretty much everyone has settled on rather generic compression, which is OK for more modern amps, but for older tweed era amps it needs to be more like a broken AFU compressor - like a VCA compressor with serious power supply issues.

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Anderton wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:55 am The short form is that for distortion, splitting the guitar into four frequency bands, and distorting each one individually, prevents excessive intermodulation distortion within the amp. Low notes and high notes ring out separately.
[...]
I did a video that shows the difference between single-band and multi-band sounds.

https://youtu.be/9nhXh39tZPs
Interesting. When I was just learning to record with PC back in mid 00s, I had an idea of getting huge guitar sounds from my Pandora box by recording each string separately and mix it with normal chords. I did sound lush and stellar but was too difficult to keep on recording that way mainly due to slow system, poor audio interface and immature software. FWIW, Roland VG system and Boss GP10 can do this trick.
Anderton wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:55 am (An aside: I like a lot of the Line 6 original effects more than the traditional effects the Helix emulates. If I had any one request, it would be to let the developers loose on developing unique effects. Sure, they do a good Tube Screamer...but there's more to life than Tube Screamers.)
True! Many guitar heroes are famous for sounds nobody would expect from guitar, at least before it became mainstream. I remember a guy who tried to create a new genre by composing for the outdated Zoom 505. His music was recorded on guitar but bore no resemblance with the traditional guitar playing. It was fun, although it didn't have any success and vanished away. Unfortunately.
Last edited by Soundwise on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guitarzan wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:46 pm I was specifically thinking of ReValver, since I was a tester for a couple versions (before and after Peavey) and I know exactly at what point they gave up and why.
Would love to know the reasons why... Can you share this?

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Soundwise wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:13 pm Would love to know the reasons why... Can you share this?
I actually went into this earlier in this thread and then decided to edit it all out - not really sure about NDA, etc. and it comes off sounding too personal. Michael, the developer of ReValver, was great and he would've figured it out eventually, of that I have no doubt.

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Dewdman42 wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:18 pm I'd also love to see JamVox brought more into mainstream conversation, I don't know why nobody ever talks about it, I still think its one of the best, especially in terms of feel...and it does have the Vox sound nailed, among other things...
I don't think Craig is going to cover this one, so I will. I'll even revert back to my previous format for this one.

VOX Amplification JamVOX III v3.0.3
The Interface:
JamVOX has a nice layout but as a plugin you have no window sizing options and the knobs do not show any numerical position data when selected or moved. The stand alone version removes both of these limitations. In both versions you are limited to the number of effects that are shown on the interface; specifically two pedal effects and one each noise gate, amp, cabinet, modulation effect, delay, reverb and a gain.

The Amps:
You have 19 amps and 12 cabinets to choose from, but no ability to load cabinet impulse responses or pick and position microphones.
My picks; the various VOX models in general with the VOX AC30TB being my favourite.

The Effects:
With 18 pedals effects, 12 modulation effects, 11 delays and 15 reverbs to choose from you get a fairly good selection of mainly competent effects.
My picks; the COMP pedal based on the MXR M-102 Dyna Comp and the TREBLE BOOST pedal based on the VOX VBM-1 Booster Output.

In conclusion:
JamVOX has its limitations; but punches above its weight by virtue of the great sounds it provides.

JamVOX does beat out all my other amp sims in one category; playing along with a backing track. Some of the songs I use JamVOX for: "All Right Now" by Paul Kossoff of Free, "Black Magic Woman" and "Samba Pa Ti" by Santana, "Goodbye to Love" by Tony Peluso with the Carpenters, "Hideaway" by Eric Clapton and "The Stumble" by Peter Green both covers of Freddie King songs that they did with John Mayall.

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Another advantage of jamvox is that the modeling is the same as their floor pedals, some discontinued. You can import presets from my tonelab LE into jamvox for example. That’s partly why the chain limitations you mentioned which mirror the architecture of their valvetronix hardware platform.

The valvetronix modeling, by the way is part of how they achieve such great amp “feel” compared to many other offerings and killer sustain. The hardware uses an actual tube for that while jamvox just models it, and you can feel a difference in my experience but it’s very close. I still have a tonelab LE on my pedal board and am planning to buy another one as a backup in case this one goes bad because to this day I still haven’t found a worthy replacement, including the super high priced stuff like helix, etc which has a lot more flexibility but imho still can’t compete with that valvetronix circuit in terms of organic sound and feel.

The backing track feature is also extremely cool I agree but for me the sheer simplicity of programming this thing is part of what I love. It only has a few pedals and post fx but they are generally all the “right” stuff that you’d always want. Also i do have to say that although I get great tones out of it people always compliment them and peek around at my pedal to see what I’m running because of the organic sound and feel of it, so t just sounds really really good and feels like real tubes to play.....but.....other offerings out there today sound more exactly like an actual Marshall If that’s what you’re going for. Need to sound exactly like angus?.....other modelers are getting closer to exact tone match, but they just don’t have the same organic tone and feel that the valvetronix gets IMHO.
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Soundwise wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:56 pm I don't hang around the KVR forum, just saw a link to this discussion on another forum so am a little late to the party. Please, bear with me if posts that I'll comment on have already been fully discussed and the questions answered. This topic stirs up too much interest in me to quietly pass it by. :)
If you're the Soundwise from the old Sonar forums, welcome! Your presence will help raise the bar :)
My educational website has launched! Read articles, see videos, read reviews, and more at https://craiganderton.org. Check out my music at http://YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit my digital storefront at https://craiganderton.com. Thanks!

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Anderton wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:30 am
If you're the Soundwise from the old Sonar forums, welcome! Your presence will help raise the bar :)
Yes, I am. Thank you! :) (I shudder to think what would've happaned if I were not. :lol: Nevermind, kust kidding. :) )

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audiojunkie wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:46 pm I think you really hit on something that explains why Cab IRs, while good, aren't the best. Currently, cab IRs are too static--they are using convolution for the most part. Just like Convolution reverbs vs Algorithmic reverbs, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but convolution is very static, while algorithmic is very much alive. As I know you know, :hihi: convolution is good when trying to capture static things--like a room's ambience, for instance, but not good for living, breathing (read: moving) reverb. Algorithmic reverb recreates the "movement" (for lack of a better word) and the changes. I think this "movement" is one of the areas that is missing in current amp cab models, and one reason why I think amp modeling is going to keep getting better. Imagine the great technology we have now, further advanced with the amp modeling that Guitarizan's been mentioning, along with improved cabs! 8) :tu:
I think you should try MCabinet by Melda. It can load up to 16 individual IRs in one preset, analyze a bunch of IRs and retrieve the average response. But the most important is that there are 6 synthesized algorithmic resonators that add a new dimension to static IRs. Used sparingly, these resonators bring your favorite IRs alive, making you feel like this is the real cab you're listening to and/or playing through. I have a huge collection of IRs but never was fond of using them because of their static nature. MCabinet is the game changer. No wonder it quickly became my number one cab sim. Now my tube amps and preamps as well as amp sims both hardware and software sound exceptionally good. I don't spend time in "studio flight simulators" anymore.

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Overloud TH-U is the next amp sim I want to cover; if you haven't already, please read Craig's excellent review a little earlier in this thread!

Overloud TH-U
My first experience with Overloud's TH series of amp sims was in 2009 when TH1 was introduced. In 2011 it was on to TH2 and the introduction of official Randall, Brunetti and THD models. The end of 2015 brought TH3 with 21 new amps, 10 new effects and an interface change. Which brings us to 2019 and TH-U with 15 new amps, 14 new cabinets, Amp Tweaks and the Rig Player.

After 10 years of Overloud TH amp sims I will state at the outset; it has always been near the top of my picks for just playing around as I would with real gear. In this case with a massive amount of pedals and rack effects using an incredible variety of amps and cabinets!

The Interface:
With 6 preset zoom buttons for the central Sound Chain View and the ability to resize the plugin window as well as the small navigator window; TH-U is my favourite amp sim to navigate in. As with real gear; TH-U allows you to place the pedals and rack effects wherever you want, and as many as you want.

I would like to talk about the preset management; in TH1 and TH2 I hated the layout; it was too awkward. Thankfully this got fixed in TH3 and TH-U continues with the same layout, which is good thing with more than 1000 presets!

The Amps:
With 89 amps and 50 cabs including authorized models by Randall, Brunetti, DVmark and THD; there is plenty to choose from.
My picks; all the authorized models sound great to me, but the best of all is the Rig Player.

The Rig Player is a game changer for me, with the Choptones libraries in particular providing me with extremely usable tones. The gain control on the lower row of knobs on the Rig Player is crucial for setting the proper input level. When I viewed the Overloud video "Overloud TH-U Rig Player explained" I noticed my sound was not as clean; the problem was the rig was captured with a Fender Telecaster. My guitar has Seymour Duncan humbuckers which have a lot higher output than the Teles, so turning down the gain control cleaned up the Dr. Z Maz amp to perfection.

The Effects:
With 77 to choose from, most of which are quite good, you shouldn't have a problem getting the sound you're after.
My picks; the BREVERB and SpringAge based reverb effects, the Shimmer Reverb, and the Shimmer Delay.

In conclusion:
Each new version of Overloud's TH series has improved upon its predecessor. With TH-U I have found that not only is it better than TH3, but thanks to the Rig Player combined with the Choptones libraries, it has become my top pick for imitating a real gear setup. As Craig mentioned, be forewarned; this can be a costly compared to JamVOX III or S-Gear for example. Your current financial situation will dictate the viability of obtaining TH-U with all the trimmings, on the plus side it's much cheaper than a Kemper Profiling Amplifier.

Finally, I would like to mention a couple of other points about TH-U that really impressed me. First of all it loads extremely fast; faster than Line 6 Helix or AmpliTube 4, and much faster than BIAS FX 2. Second, TH-U is very light on the CPU and enables you to create very complex chains of amps and effects with no problems for most contemporary computer systems.

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Soundwise wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:46 am
audiojunkie wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:46 pm I think you really hit on something that explains why Cab IRs, while good, aren't the best. Currently, cab IRs are too static--they are using convolution for the most part. Just like Convolution reverbs vs Algorithmic reverbs, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but convolution is very static, while algorithmic is very much alive. As I know you know, :hihi: convolution is good when trying to capture static things--like a room's ambience, for instance, but not good for living, breathing (read: moving) reverb. Algorithmic reverb recreates the "movement" (for lack of a better word) and the changes. I think this "movement" is one of the areas that is missing in current amp cab models, and one reason why I think amp modeling is going to keep getting better. Imagine the great technology we have now, further advanced with the amp modeling that Guitarizan's been mentioning, along with improved cabs! 8) :tu:
I think you should try MCabinet by Melda. It can load up to 16 individual IRs in one preset, analyze a bunch of IRs and retrieve the average response. But the most important is that there are 6 synthesized algorithmic resonators that add a new dimension to static IRs. Used sparingly, these resonators bring your favorite IRs alive, making you feel like this is the real cab you're listening to and/or playing through. I have a huge collection of IRs but never was fond of using them because of their static nature. MCabinet is the game changer. No wonder it quickly became my number one cab sim. Now my tube amps and preamps as well as amp sims both hardware and software sound exceptionally good. I don't spend time in "studio flight simulators" anymore.
Very interesting! Thanks for the heads up! I'll look into it! :-)
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Soundwise wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:46 am
I think you should try MCabinet by Melda. It can load up to 16 individual IRs in one preset, analyze a bunch of IRs and retrieve the average response. But the most important is that there are 6 synthesized algorithmic resonators that add a new dimension to static IRs. Used sparingly, these resonators bring your favorite IRs alive, making you feel like this is the real cab you're listening to and/or playing through. I have a huge collection of IRs but never was fond of using them because of their static nature. MCabinet is the game changer. No wonder it quickly became my number one cab sim. Now my tube amps and preamps as well as amp sims both hardware and software sound exceptionally good. I don't spend time in "studio flight simulators" anymore.
Can you comment a bit more about the resonators? I was under the impression that the resonators merely tweak a resulting IR, which is still applied to the sound at runtime in a static nature. Do I have that wrong? Is Mcabinet actually doing some dynamic mojo with the resonators during playback? I just picked up mcabinet not long ago and haven’t had time to really test it out or read it’s manual.
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mmann wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:22 pm I would like to talk about the preset management; in TH1 and TH2 I hated the layout; it was too awkward. Thankfully this got fixed in TH3 and TH-U continues with the same layout, which is good thing with more than 1000 presets!
I'm glad you brought that up. Yes, preset management before TH3 was...uh...well, let's just say not very good. :)
The Rig Player is a game changer for me, with the Choptones libraries in particular providing me with extremely usable tones.
Thanks for underscoring that. I probably should have gone into a bit more detail, but there's a lot to cover!
My guitar has Seymour Duncan humbuckers which have a lot higher output than the Teles, so turning down the gain control cleaned up the Dr. Z Maz amp to perfection.
And yes - input levels are so important when dealing with any kind of preset.
My picks; the BREVERB and SpringAge based reverb effects, the Shimmer Reverb, and the Shimmer Delay.
As an aside, the full version of Breverb 2 is an outstanding algorithmic reverb for studio use.
Finally, I would like to mention a couple of other points about TH-U that really impressed me. First of all it loads extremely fast; faster than Line 6 Helix or AmpliTube 4, and much faster than BIAS FX 2. Second, TH-U is very light on the CPU and enables you to create very complex chains of amps and effects with no problems for most contemporary computer systems.
Very good point, thanks for mentioning that.
My educational website has launched! Read articles, see videos, read reviews, and more at https://craiganderton.org. Check out my music at http://YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit my digital storefront at https://craiganderton.com. Thanks!

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