Behringer Crave
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15983 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
This, exactly. People are far too insulated from reality these days. They only hang out with people who agree with them and are, for the most part, unwilling to even consider other points of view. I'm sure that 's why people like Mushy Mushy and Elektronisch have so much trouble forming a cogent argument, they have never had to explain themselves before because they only interact people who they know will agree with them. Sadly, it's the world we live in, it's not confined to synth forums.
Anyway, I had a closer look at Crave last night and it's even more limited than I had realised. Just two waveform options, even for the LFO, and just a single ADS envelope. No amount of patching can make up for such serious shortfalls. Then there is no velocity modulation, no response to aftertouch or even a Mod Wheel. Realistically it is so limited it is only going to be competing with Korg's Volcas, which probably explains why Behringer have dropped their pants on pricing, even before it's available.
One quick question for the modular crowd - how do you control modulation depth when you patch something? e.g. With Crave, if I was using the hard-wired filter mod with the envelope and wanted to patch the LFO into the cutoff frequency as well, how would I control the mod depth?
Anyway, I had a closer look at Crave last night and it's even more limited than I had realised. Just two waveform options, even for the LFO, and just a single ADS envelope. No amount of patching can make up for such serious shortfalls. Then there is no velocity modulation, no response to aftertouch or even a Mod Wheel. Realistically it is so limited it is only going to be competing with Korg's Volcas, which probably explains why Behringer have dropped their pants on pricing, even before it's available.
One quick question for the modular crowd - how do you control modulation depth when you patch something? e.g. With Crave, if I was using the hard-wired filter mod with the envelope and wanted to patch the LFO into the cutoff frequency as well, how would I control the mod depth?
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRAF
- 6428 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
With Neutron at least you use ATT1 which can be controlled by CV and also route what you want to control to in and out. You have a bunch of Multi to make Y-connections from one source, and SUM 1 and 2 if you wish to sums some sources. ATT2 is regular pot right up as I recall if you want to use it to regulate a source amount somewhere.BONES wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:52 am One quick question for the modular crowd - how do you control modulation depth when you patch something? e.g. With Crave, if I was using the hard-wired filter mod with the envelope and wanted to patch the LFO into the cutoff frequency as well, how would I control the mod depth?
Internally I connect velocity to Assign out - which I used with above to do VCA amount control of velocity.
Internally there is a connection from mod source like velocity to filter cutoff and you can set that amount by a second function of other knobs. There are a number for such second functions on existing pots to set amount of lfo etc.
Fiddling with this stuff - you also get ideas what to control in regular mod matrix in other synths - apart from being fun in Neutron as well.
I thought about getting a second neutron to expand features even more - but just find mono synths are of limited use for me.
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
Oh the ironyBONES wrote:unwilling to even consider other points of view
First up you have no idea what I do for a living but let's just say "forming a cogent argument is a big part of it" However, unlike you I'm above arguing with tosspot strangers on an internet forum.BONES wrote:I'm sure that 's why people like Mushy Mushy have so much trouble forming a cogent argument
I don't give a flying f*ck if you or anybody buys the Crave as I'm not Behringers marketing department so why would I waste my energy trying to sell you one. Buy one, don't buy one; I couldn't give a monkey's arse.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
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- KVRAF
- 2011 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo
You could do it a couple ways. If you're using MIDI to drive a modular rack, you could send velocity/aftertouch/modwheel out as a control voltage (CV), which you then patch into whatever you are modulating (likely using an attenuator at some point to control depth). You can use stackable cables if you want to send more than one thing to the same destination, or you would use a summation module.BONES wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:52 am One quick question for the modular crowd - how do you control modulation depth when you patch something? e.g. With Crave, if I was using the hard-wired filter mod with the envelope and wanted to patch the LFO into the cutoff frequency as well, how would I control the mod depth?
It's basically the same wiring as a fixed architecture synth, you're just creating your own architecture from basic building blocks (but a level or two up from say, Reaktor core). One thing to note is that a lot of modular music is driven either by a sequencer or is generative. Generative could be something as simple as noise going into a sample & hold, the s&h value patched to an oscillator pitch (likely via a quantizer), and the VCA triggered by a rhythm sequence. It could have more intention with some advanced sequencer modules.
Take a look at this piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o791hgNvGIg
Note how the melodic sequences are being transposed up and down as he twists the knobs. And there's a layer of subtle noise and ripples that modular excels at. There's a explanation of the routing in the description but it may not make sense if you're not familiar with what each module does, which can be esoteric.
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15983 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
Crave doesn't appear to have any of that so the patch bay would seem to be largely decorative.lfm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:08 amWith Neutron at least you use ATT1 which can be controlled by CV and also route what you want to control to in and out. You have a bunch of Multi to make Y-connections from one source, and SUM 1 and 2 if you wish to sums some sources. ATT2 is regular pot right up as I recall if you want to use it to regulate a source amount somewhere.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRAF
- 2583 posts since 26 Aug, 2002 from here
It has a multi out and a sum cv too. So the patcher is pretty useful. It is still a limited synth, but so is a 303. Those of us making techno may well find a space for Crave for those repetitive step sequenced parts.BONES wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:12 pmCrave doesn't appear to have any of that so the patch bay would seem to be largely decorative.lfm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:08 amWith Neutron at least you use ATT1 which can be controlled by CV and also route what you want to control to in and out. You have a bunch of Multi to make Y-connections from one source, and SUM 1 and 2 if you wish to sums some sources. ATT2 is regular pot right up as I recall if you want to use it to regulate a source amount somewhere.
You also own an elektron analog keys which gives you 4 very flexible cvs and audio ins. Which you could use to make the Crave a sort of sound module expansion.
I personally am temped to add Crave as a sub sub oscillator to mine. But it is probably GAS as I already have a microbrute doing that!
I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33215 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
A VCA, if the depth has to be controlled via CV, or an attenuator/attenuvertor if its not. An attenuator on at least one modulation input is pretty fundamental to most modules, but they exist as modules as well.
No idea how you'd do it, but I'd use one of these...e.g. With Crave, if I was using the hard-wired filter mod with the envelope and wanted to patch the LFO into the cutoff frequency as well, how would I control the mod depth?
https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ryo-airtenuator/
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- addled muppet weed
- 105988 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
or the koma attenucables.
set and forget type control, no good for tweaking. but for that application, perfect.
set and forget type control, no good for tweaking. but for that application, perfect.
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15983 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
If there was any value in doing that, maybe, but I can't see any at all. Don't you see how stupid it is to be telling anyone they have to have this and this and this extra thing to make it useful? It makes its lowish price completely irrelevant. If it's only useful as a rack module, sell it as a rack module, don't kid people it's a fully fledged synth on its own when it clearly isn't.
Whereas I use synths that have enough bottom end on their own. i.e. Nothing with a ladder filter.I personally am temped to add Crave as a sub sub oscillator to mine. But it is probably GAS as I already have a microbrute doing that!
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
Bonesy... why are you in this thread?BONES wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:05 pmIf there was any value in doing that, maybe, but I can't see any at all. Don't you see how stupid it is to be telling anyone they have to have this and this and this extra thing to make it useful? It makes its lowish price completely irrelevant. If it's only useful as a rack module, sell it as a rack module, don't kid people it's a fully fledged synth on its own when it clearly isn't.Whereas I use synths that have enough bottom end on their own. i.e. Nothing with a ladder filter.I personally am temped to add Crave as a sub sub oscillator to mine. But it is probably GAS as I already have a microbrute doing that!
You like your uno(life) and see no value in crave...
so mossey on back to what you know.. the Uno thread.
in fact all you ever do is to call members stupid or idiots because they don't see through your eyes, which, from my perspective are either closed or very blinkered, like a horse or dog.
I was going to give some useful information on that "decorative" Crave patch bay... but what a waste of time that would be, after seeing your dismissive answer to my explanation in another thread about ASIO4all ... It has some overhead, yeah.. it has low latency, at a CPU cost...
to follow your example...
anyone who doesn't get that is an idiot.
END!
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15983 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
How is a negative opinion any less valid than a positive one? I know at least as much about Crave as anyone else here, my perspective is at least as valid as yours or anyone else's. I've also found it quite instructive to see how stupidly people think about these things, which has given me insight into the thought processes that lead to people making ridiculous decisions on such matters. So while there is anything left to learn here, you can expect me to continue to be involved.
What makes people seem like idiots isn't that they make different decisions to me, because I make stupid decisions all the time, it's that they either do it for idiotic reasons or they convince themselves they are doing it for entirely different reasons to the actual reasons they are doing it and then try to convince themselves they made a good decision by trying to convince the rest of us. It's fascinating.
As for the other thread, your advice wasn't helpful. It was an explanation of the theoretical with no thought of the practical, in that the CPU hit won't matter if you aren't taxing your system. e.g. If your maximum CPU use is 50% with a "proper" ASIO driver and 60% under ASIO4all, what does it matter? So you try it and see how it goes, then decide whether or not you need to spend money. You don't arbitrarily dismiss it because it is technically inferior. It's just common sense, surely?
What makes people seem like idiots isn't that they make different decisions to me, because I make stupid decisions all the time, it's that they either do it for idiotic reasons or they convince themselves they are doing it for entirely different reasons to the actual reasons they are doing it and then try to convince themselves they made a good decision by trying to convince the rest of us. It's fascinating.
As for the other thread, your advice wasn't helpful. It was an explanation of the theoretical with no thought of the practical, in that the CPU hit won't matter if you aren't taxing your system. e.g. If your maximum CPU use is 50% with a "proper" ASIO driver and 60% under ASIO4all, what does it matter? So you try it and see how it goes, then decide whether or not you need to spend money. You don't arbitrarily dismiss it because it is technically inferior. It's just common sense, surely?
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- Banned
- 3889 posts since 3 Feb, 2010
We did gave you cogent argument it just doesnt convince you:
1. Because you already have formed an opinion
2. Because you are stuborn to admit your opinion is not an argument when other people interfere by expressing their own needs and requiriments for certain tool
3. You have such an ego that everything around you is valued from your perspective and viewpoint ignoring other people
Last edited by Elektronisch on Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 35489 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany