Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Whywhy
KVRist
432 posts since 11 Aug, 2018

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:57 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:01 am
Markus Krause wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:37 am
Finished today:

Support for MPE-devices like the Seaboard (Midi PolyPhonic Expression). You can enable MPE support in the setup of the synth.
Amazing! That must be record time. So the mpe expressions are in the mod matrix as mod sources then I assume?

Also - You probably didn't have time for this but in the future maybe, it would be great to have curves to scale the mpe expressions like in Equator.
+1 !!!!
Yes, curves are really important for Mpe, lag, smooth setting too.

Markus Krause
KVRist
227 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:21 am

A smoothing of the MPE parameters could indeed be necessary. My measurements have shown that the update-rate of data sent by the Seaboard is pretty slow.

If you connect a Seaboard to Icarus2 all you need to do is to click on 'Enable MPE support' in the setup. The synth does the rest. MPE works for all existing Icarus patches without any further steps necessary. It also works if the host does not support MPE as long as it filters no Midi messages.

The typical Midi-MPE parameters in the Matrix are assigned to:
- Aftertouch (Z-axis, how strong you press)
- Macro (Y-Axis)
X-Axis is the pitch (as usual)
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

Hanz Meyzer
KVRian
1267 posts since 20 Oct, 2014

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:46 am

Are there any preview (videos) of this version?

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7155 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:02 am

Markus Krause wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:21 am
A smoothing of the MPE parameters could indeed be necessary. My measurements have shown that the update-rate of data sent by the Seaboard is pretty slow.

If you connect a Seaboard to Icarus2 all you need to do is to click on 'Enable MPE support' in the setup. The synth does the rest. MPE works for all existing Icarus patches without any further steps necessary. It also works if the host does not support MPE as long as it filters no Midi messages.

The typical Midi-MPE parameters in the Matrix are assigned to:
- Aftertouch (Z-axis, how strong you press)
- Macro (Y-Axis)
X-Axis is the pitch (as usual)
Actually what I meant by curves is fully scalable input/output curves, like in Equator. For example let's say you wanted a parameter to begin to be modulated only after you've reached 50% of the pressure range, a curve would let you do that, or you could make it an exponential curve. This can be useful, even necessary for some mpe sounds.

By the way, purely out of curiosity, how long did MPE take to implement? I've always been curious what kind of effort it is to add to an existing synth. I guess it's fastest for synths with a mod matrix.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.

Markus Krause
KVRist
227 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:59 am

Adding MPE support required around a week. From the technical part you need to do this:

- Handle the incoming midi events
- Add channel handling to the synth voices
- Integrate it to the mod matrix

In Icarus MPE works fine with the existing patches and when you play it live.
However many hosts can not handle MPE properly. So editing MPE recordings in the host might be tricky.
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

Spitfire31
KVRAF
2854 posts since 18 May, 2003 from Sweden

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:22 am

Markus Krause wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:59 am
Adding MPE support required around a week. From the technical part you need to do this:

- Handle the incoming midi events
- Add channel handling to the synth voices
- Integrate it to the mod matrix

In Icarus MPE works fine with the existing patches and when you play it live.
However many hosts can not handle MPE properly. So editing MPE recordings in the host might be tricky.
I'm grateful for your efforts to implement MPE!

Do you have a list, perhaps, of DAWs that don't handle MPE properly? Or maybe a shorter list of DAWs that do? ;-)

Kind regards,

Joachim
If it were easy, anybody could do it!

metaside
KVRist
126 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:57 am

Markus Krause wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:59 am
Adding MPE support required around a week.
Awesome, thanks for adding it! Really looking forward to the result! :tu:

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7155 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:07 am

Spitfire31 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:22 am
Markus Krause wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:59 am
Adding MPE support required around a week. From the technical part you need to do this:

- Handle the incoming midi events
- Add channel handling to the synth voices
- Integrate it to the mod matrix

In Icarus MPE works fine with the existing patches and when you play it live.
However many hosts can not handle MPE properly. So editing MPE recordings in the host might be tricky.
I'm grateful for your efforts to implement MPE!

Do you have a list, perhaps, of DAWs that don't handle MPE properly? Or maybe a shorter list of DAWs that do? ;-)

Kind regards,

Joachim
This is already well documented elsewhere. I'd look at the Roli and linnstrument sites for details about this. But in Short - Cubase, Logic, Reaper and Bitwig are good with MPE. Studio One, Ableton, Reason I think don't have MPE support (though often you can do a multi-track workaround but it's clunky, or you can record straight to audio).
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit. Once I have something clever, I will certainly fill it in.

Spitfire31
KVRAF
2854 posts since 18 May, 2003 from Sweden

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:14 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:07 am
Cubase, Logic, Reaper and Bitwig are good with MPE. Studio One, Ableton, Reason I think don't have MPE support (though often you can do a multi-track workaround but it's clunky, or you can record straight to audio).
Thanks!
Kind regards,

Joachim
If it were easy, anybody could do it!

ENV1
KVRAF
2568 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:11 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote: This is already well documented elsewhere. I'd look at the Roli and linnstrument sites for details about this.
Since Mr. Linn is present here on KVR you could probably just consult him directly via PM.

(The man is a veritable fountain of information and with regard to the LinnStrument your No.1 contact since he is the guy who invented it.)

Markus Krause
KVRist
227 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:33 am

I am wondering how the synth should react when a MPE device is connected in combination with a monophonic patch. Currently it ignores the MPE commands and behaves like an ordinary Midi keyboard is connected. What do you think?
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

ENV1
KVRAF
2568 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:14 am

Well did you try contacting Roger Linn?

Im sure he can answer your MPE questions much better than the average user around here.

(Just wondering because consulting someone who has the knowledge seems the obvious thing to do.)

SLiC
KVRAF
4125 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:30 am

ENV1 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:14 am
Well did you try contacting Roger Linn?

Im sure he can answer your MPE questions much better than the average user around here.

(Just wondering because consulting someone who has the knowledge seems the obvious thing to do.)
He also actively promotes synths that have MPE ability on his web site etc- it is to his advantage (as an MPE hardware manufacturer) to have more fully MPE synths!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

Markus Krause
KVRist
227 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:34 am

What's in general wrong with asking the users what they expect?

I already own the detailed technical specification from Roli. The MPE specs are not clear in every place. They just say 'a meaningfully behavior'.

I also contacted Roger Linn and am collaborating with him.

This is what kvr-member 'Echoes in the Attic' wrote:

"Looking forward to seeing if mono modes work normally in mpe mode as well. Even though mpe is meant for polyphony, mono modes can still be really cool with mpe devices. Only a few synths work correctly in mono - Cypher, Equator and now Phonec 2. You can hold one note and play a second note on and off with bends and expressions and the first note always triggers properly when you lift the second note. Makes for some cool playing techniques."
Tone2 Audiosoftware https://www.tone2.com

SLiC
KVRAF
4125 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:23 am

Markus Krause wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:34 am
What's in general wrong with asking the users what they expect?
Absolutely nothing at all, just most of us cant help and we want it released :wink: !
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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