Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

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Orbit-50 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:37 amYou got it. They're resting on the laurel's built by their predecessors, and giving away the farm as many times as they can. This is not Roland anymore, it's just a bunch of suits bleeding the company that Ikutaro built. It seems to be all the rage these days with other companies as well. It's disgusting where this world is going. There are no more trustworthy brands anymore.
I don't see how it is Roland's fault. They are just making what people want to buy. If you want to blame anyone, blame everyone who lusts after ancient piles of junk. Honestly, buying a couple of Boutiques was a real reminder of just how ordinary Roland synths are but people still rate them and buy them, more than they do new and modern instruments.

Now, if there is someone you want to have a go at, have a go at Behringer. Behringer steal other companies' products and clone them. How they get away with it beggars belief. Seriously, why would Roland let them build a carbon copy SH 101? It's nuts.
Last edited by BONES on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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They're not stealing. And they're not stupid either. Everything they clone should have run out, patent wise, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Basically, they're just doing what other companies do themselves, like Roland continuously warming up their "vintage" devices, just with the difference that they're doing it with other company's stuff. If there would be a problem, then Moog surely would have sued them already. I'm sure it's all 100% legit, otherwise Uli Behringer wouldn't do it.

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I'm sure it's all 100% legit, otherwise Uli Behringer wouldn't do it.
Of course it is. Behringer is way to big to make mistakes like that. And as for clones, I really couldn't care less. As stated elsewhere, they're really bringing machines to life that are otherwise unavailable to most people. Remember when software and computers were too expensive for the average consumer? Today anyone can afford it. Behringer is just doing the same thing. Sure they're clones. That seem to matter more for the purists than what music you can make with then. And as far as I know the Deepmind is a 100% original synth.

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lfm wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:25 amBut compared with Behringer price range everything seems overpriced.
Not really. You can buy a Novation BassStation 2 or an Arturia MIcrofreak for the price of a Behringer MS-101 and a Korg Monologue is even cheaper. Even a Minilogue XD is around the same price as a Deepmind 6. You can buy an Uno Synth or Waldorf Rocket for way less than a Neutron or Model D. The difference is that Behringer don't sell anything that's really expensive but none of their products could hold a candle to these things.
chk071 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 amThey're not stealing. And they're not stupid either. Everything they clone should have run out, patent wise, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
Of course they are stealing. Look at the difference between them and Korg over the Odyssey - Korg worked with one of the founders of ARP to make their Odyssey, Behringer just ripped it off.
Basically, they're just doing what other companies do themselves, like Roland continuously warming up their "vintage" devices, just with the difference that they're doing it with other company's stuff.
That's like excusing murder because we all die eventually anyway. Who made the original is the most important thing, or how they go about using someone else's ideas. Korg did it right, Behringer don't.
If there would be a problem, then Moog surely would have sued them already. I'm sure it's all 100% legit, otherwise Uli Behringer wouldn't do it.
So as long as it's legal, there's no problem? No moral aspect for anyone to get over? Let me remind you that you used the word "disgusting" when putting Roland down, yet somehow you think the way Behringer goes about it is worth defending. Do you understand how completely contradictory those two stances are? It's not a race thing, is it?
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BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:17 pm
lfm wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:25 amBut compared with Behringer price range everything seems overpriced.
Not really. You can buy a Novation BassStation 2 or an Arturia MIcrofreak for the price of a Behringer MS-101 and a Korg Monologue is even cheaper. Even a Minilogue XD is around the same price as a Deepmind 6. You can buy an Uno Synth or Waldorf Rocket for way less than a Neutron or Model D. The difference is that Behringer don't sell anything that's really expensive but none of their products could hold a candle to these things.
I'll take the Behringer stuff over any of that crap everyday

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BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:17 pm So as long as it's legal, there's no problem? No moral aspect for anyone to get over? Let me remind you that you used the word "disgusting" when putting Roland down, yet somehow you think the way Behringer goes about it is worth defending.
You must be confusing me with someone else. :o

Apart from that, i have no idea why you talk about morals. What is immoral about copying someone else's work, when there is no patent or copyright infringement? It happens every day. And it's perfectly fine to do so, as long as, as mentioned, you don't infringe someone else's work.

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sprnva wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:48 pm From a quick glance the Xm looks nice. It's like getting most of the Boutiques in a better package. Tad pricey though.
From what I've understood from reading about these on GS, it sounds like you may not quite be getting Boutique-level ACB modeling in these new Jupiters. Apparently that may have been scaled back a bit as a trade-off to achieve higher polyphony. Only Roland engineers would know the specifics at this point, I guess.
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Yeah it's not ACB. They're calling it "ZEN-Core" but I'm not even sure if that's an engine or just a marketing term for "PCM samples and unspecified VA". I'm assuming they've dropped the component-level modeling of ACB and went with a more generic emulation that (hopefully) gets similar results but more efficiently. Haven't seen anyone shoot-out the engines yet. It would be good to see a comparison between the 106 emulation in the JU-06A and the Xm to clear the air. Maybe that'll happen in time.
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Doe's this have a D-beam? It's a deal breaker for me if it doesnt lol

Edit: Seeing the specs looks it doesn't!
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v1o wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:24 pm Doe's this have a D-beam? It's a deal breaker for me if it doesnt lol

Edit: Seeing the specs looks it doesn't!
I guess that is a joke. :) To me DBeam is about as useless as snake suspenders. A beer holder in the same location would be much more useful. I might occasionally use a beer holder, and never used the DBeam.

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It's too unpredictable to be musical, in my view.

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BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:17 pmThe difference is that Behringer don't sell anything that's really expensive but none of their products could hold a candle to these things.
The Neutron is not expensive but it has a brilliant sound. It gives me what I was looking for in my first round with a fully modular system and it more than holds its own amongst the competition.

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BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 am
Orbit-50 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:37 amYou got it. They're resting on the laurel's built by their predecessors, and giving away the farm as many times as they can. This is not Roland anymore, it's just a bunch of suits bleeding the company that Ikutaro built. It seems to be all the rage these days with other companies as well. It's disgusting where this world is going. There are no more trustworthy brands anymore.
I don't see how it is Roland's fault. They are just making what people want to buy. If you want to blame anyone, blame everyone who lusts after ancient piles of junk. Honestly, buying a couple of Boutiques was a real reminder of just how ordinary Roland synths are but people still rate them and buy them, more than they do new and modern instruments.
Thanks for the perspective Bones. You've effectively eased the "Roland has left the building" blow for me. That's a very good point that I overlooked. I have to remember that they are a business, and they are just giving the sheep what they want.
BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 am Now, if there is someone you want to have a go at, have a go at Behringer. Behringer steal other companies' products and clone them. How they get away with it beggars belief. Seriously, why would Roland let them build a carbon copy SH 101? It's nuts.
It's a running joke at work with one of my employees, where he would walk in every other week and show me a new Behringer product that was a complete rippoff of Roland and Boss products. I would explain to him how Roland Corp., in it's heyday, would have cast a nuclear sized lawsuit against anyone who would have attempted to pull that crap. There are probably a few companies till this very day, that shudder at the thought of Roland's legal department. I don't know how Behringer is getting away with this now. Who knows, maybe they are paying Roland for the rights to create these graven images? Whatever it is, it's nuts.
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Orbit-50 wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:25 pm
BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 am
Orbit-50 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:37 amYou got it. They're resting on the laurel's built by their predecessors, and giving away the farm as many times as they can. This is not Roland anymore, it's just a bunch of suits bleeding the company that Ikutaro built. It seems to be all the rage these days with other companies as well. It's disgusting where this world is going. There are no more trustworthy brands anymore.
I don't see how it is Roland's fault. They are just making what people want to buy. If you want to blame anyone, blame everyone who lusts after ancient piles of junk. Honestly, buying a couple of Boutiques was a real reminder of just how ordinary Roland synths are but people still rate them and buy them, more than they do new and modern instruments.
Thanks for the perspective Bones. You've effectively eased the "Roland has left the building" blow for me. That's a very good point that I overlooked. I have to remember that they are a business, and they are just giving the sheep what they want.
BONES wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 am Now, if there is someone you want to have a go at, have a go at Behringer. Behringer steal other companies' products and clone them. How they get away with it beggars belief. Seriously, why would Roland let them build a carbon copy SH 101? It's nuts.
It's a running joke at work with one of my employees, where he would walk in every other week and show me a new Behringer product that was a complete rippoff of Roland and Boss products. I would explain to him how Roland Corp., in it's heyday, would have cast a nuclear sized lawsuit against anyone who would have attempted to pull that crap. There are probably a few companies till this very day, that shudder at the thought of Roland's legal department. I don't know how Behringer is getting away with this now. Who knows, maybe they are paying Roland for the rights to create these graven images? Whatever it is, it's nuts.
You know how when you go to the pharmacy they ask if you are ok with generic versions of your script? It's the same thing (basically, although patent law CAN be quite complex and there are exceptions). But on a simple level, this is what Behringer is doing, they are producing the generic version of these old synths and Roland are not suing for the same reason Pfeizer, Roche and the likes do not sue the makers of generic versions of the drugs they developed years ago...all perfectly legal and above board.

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I am not a lawyer but seemingly if a trademark infringement suit can be launched then it can be potentially more deadly and long-term than patent or even copyright.

Therefore generic nuvigil must be marketed as armodafinil and never as nuvigil.

In cloning gadgets sometimes lawyers try to argue that a certain look and feel is a trademark. Maybe that is the biggest legal minefield for cloners.

I realize that lawyers are just as essential to the ecosystem as are slime molds or maggots, but still can't work up much affection for them. :)
Last edited by JCJR on Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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