The Wagtunes Corner

[vurt]

you've just made a huge breakthrough without even noticing it.

all those times you said "i dont work well with others"
and look at the result when you do

[wagtunes]

yes, you need to understand that when we are critical, it's not to put you down, it's to lift you up.

it's easy to break a man, much harder and more rewarding to help him grow.

Yeah, I understand. And I'm not taking this stuff personally anymore. Believe me, I know all my shortcomings as a musician. I can list them all with no problem. In fact, the only thing I can do reasonably well is write. Mixing is better, but still not great. My performances are only as good as they are because of quantize. I can just about keep time playing an instrument. My voice? I won't even get into that. Thank God for pitch correct.

So if I'm perfectly honest, I don't really have a lot going for me. I can write a catchy tune. I can write half way decent lyrics, though I still think they're my weak point. But getting this stuff down and having it sound good. That is a major chore for me. None of this comes easy.

That's why I'm grateful that a band has shown interest in my music and wants to do a whole album of it. I still can't believe this is happening, but I'm very grateful. I've waited a long time for this. The album will probably be finished by the end of 2020, start of 2021.

I just hope I'm still around when it's done.

Anyway, as a musician, I know what I have to work on. I'm not stupid. It's rare that I listen to one of my songs and say to myself "That was done well." Written well? Sure. Done well? Doesn't happen often if at all. My voice alone ruins just about everything.

That about sums it all up. Did I miss anything?

[wagtunes]

you've just made a huge breakthrough without even noticing it.

all those times you said "i dont work well with others"
and look at the result when you do

You mean with el-bo? Hell, I didn't do anything. I gave him a wav file and let him have at it. It wasn't hard.

If we were going to collaborate together long term, he'd probably get tired of me within 2 weeks tops. I'm not easy to work with and I know it.

Anyway, I'm taking things a little easier these days. Knowing that I'm finally getting recorded and published has helped a lot. That's a big monkey off my back. A 42 year old 10,000 pound monkey.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Point taken. My drumming would be much better if I simply went out and bought a MIDI drum kit. And it's not even the expense. I can afford it. The problem is there is literally nowhere to put it. My "studio" (if you can call it that) is a corner of the living room. What I have there now (keyboard, computer, speakers) barely fits. There is simply no room for drums of any kind.

Well, I've been eyeing these up for ages now. Can't afford them yet, but at $200 they aren't too far away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVkMopCWJe8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Z6deMf_3c

So I have to play the parts on the keyboard, which is ridiculous as I only have 2 hands and with real drumming have 2 hands and 2 feet. Drums were never meant to be played on a keyboard.

And yet, the drum track I laid down for your song was recorded in one single performance, on a midi keyboard...with just two hands. I'm not as good as this guy, but with more practise I could definitely get there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIwq_iKjFFw

Furthermore, the drums that you commended me for on the bananas track were also played with two hands only, using fingers on a 4 x 4 akai midi pad

So, drums never being meant to be played on keyboard is irrelevant.

Sure, I could probably still get them to sound "better" (though never totally human) but the work involved to do that is just too much for me to bother. And I hate those pre programmed grooves because they sound like, well, pre programmed grooves. They're monotonous and I hate them.

I think it probably took me five-six hours in total to jam/write the parts to your song, practise, record, and then edit and mix. I could have given them a bit more sense of human-ness with a bit more editing, but there's only so far you can go working to a track that is 100% quantised, before 'human' just becomes sloppy and out of time

As for using grooves: The secret is to make up your sections of composite grooves. This breaks up the monotony and also allows you to find sections that really play well with the rest of your track. Splicing a quarter-bar of one groove, with another three-quarters of another serves to break up the monotony, but also keeps the progression moving along.

Life is too short.

The same sentiment can be used to support doing your best, rather than "just good enough". If you can't spend this effort on your art, then at least adjust your expectations of the level of appreciation your audience is supposed to have

[wagtunes]

If you can't spend this effort on your art, then at least adjust your expectations of the level of appreciation your audience is supposed to have

Know what? That's fair. It's impossible to argue with that. I can't expect people to love something that I only put so much effort into.

Having said that, ironically, the Police tribute album that I did (which took me over 4 months to complete) is not my favorite work. In fact, there is very little on the album that I like. Sure, the mixes are some of my best and the lyrics are some of my best. But musically? Meh. I've done so much better. For me, this was 4 months spent on a forgettable album.

Now yeah, I know. The song that attracted this band's attention was "Still Out Of Sync" so had I not written this album my record deal never happens.

Maybe what this is showing me is that what I like to listen to and what the general public likes to listen to is very different. That in turn has to make me wonder if I could have ever truly had a career in this business not conforming to what the masses want to hear.

It is certainly something to think about.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Having said that, ironically, the Police tribute album that I did (which took me over 4 months to complete) is not my favorite work. In fact, there is very little on the album that I like. Sure, the mixes are some of my best and the lyrics are some of my best. But musically? Meh. I've done so much better. For me, this was 4 months spent on a forgettable album.

But there is clearly not a direct correlation between time and effort spent and something being good. Moreover, you seem to be vacillating between extreme self-deprecation and perhaps believing that you have the Midas Touch.

Not everything you are going to do is going to be great. However, I'd put money on fact that going the extra mile will definitely stack the odds of success in your favour.

[wagtunes]

Having said that, ironically, the Police tribute album that I did (which took me over 4 months to complete) is not my favorite work. In fact, there is very little on the album that I like. Sure, the mixes are some of my best and the lyrics are some of my best. But musically? Meh. I've done so much better. For me, this was 4 months spent on a forgettable album.

But there is clearly not a direct correlation between time and effort spent and something being good. Moreover, you seem to be vacillating between extreme self-deprecation and perhaps believing that you have the Midas Touch.

Not everything you are going to do is going to be great. However, I'd put money on fact that going the extra mile will definitely stack the odds of success in your favour.

Of course not. You can spend a year on a song and it can be crap. I'm well aware of that. But FWIW, this album that I'm now "rushing" through is one of my favorite pieces of work ever. I absolutely love these songs. They're fresh, they're exciting, they're different and I love listening to them, my crappy drum playing aside.

So again, rushing through something doesn't mean it's going to be bad. Some of the biggest rock albums ever released were recorded in a week.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Some of the biggest rock albums ever released were recorded in a week.

Yes! By bands made up of musicians who only had to deal with getting their own performances right, having rehearsed the songs as a band and often having got them 'down' while touring them, and often having been written as collaborations by multiple band members.

They arrived at the studio, where much of the recording set-up would be out of their hands. They were recorded, mixed and mastered by other people who were also specialists in their fields.

But stripping away all those extra heads and hands, and putting all the responsibility on one single person to get it all right? Suffice to say, there really is no comparison

[vurt]

yeah that's a romantic notion that they turned up on monday with nothing written, as elbo says, usually after months of touring the songs, and rehearsals, rewrites and so on.

even then, they had producers coming in and changing stuff, throwing songs away even.
very few artists had carte blanche on their own works.

[wagtunes]

yeah that's a romantic notion that they turned up on monday with nothing written, as elbo says, usually after months of touring the songs, and rehearsals, rewrites and so on.

even then, they had producers coming in and changing stuff, throwing songs away even.
very few artists had carte blanche on their own works.

Yeah, I get that. And I also get that we're talking about some damn talented people. But the main point stills stands.

Time Spent =\ Good Results

Plus, we've already established that if I'm not willing to put in that extra effort I can't expect people to love what I do. I acknowledge this and I accept this. So honestly, there's nothing left to discuss on this subject.

Ultimately, I've achieved my life's goal. A group (one that actually makes money in the business) is going to be doing an album of my work.

I can now die in peace as there's nothing left I need to do.

[vurt]

well i want you to realise that you too are a damn talented person.
at every aspect? no, course not, those freaks are few and far between and of course lucky bastards.

but you write good, sometimes great lyrics.
again, all the time? no, but even the beatles wrote some shite

give yourself some credit
you deserve it, rather than self deprecating as much as you do.
and im made up for you about that band

[wagtunes]

well i want you to realise that you too are a damn talented person.
at every aspect? no, course not, those freaks are few and far between and of course lucky bastards.

but you write good, sometimes great lyrics.
again, all the time? no, but even the beatles wrote some shite

give yourself some credit
you deserve it, rather than self deprecating as much as you do.
and im made up for you about that band

Well, I'm a realist about things. My own mother told me I had no singing voice. She was a voice teacher and didn't even bother trying to teach me how to sing. She said it had to do with how my voice box was constructed and the size of my frame, both being against me. Piano, could never get the left hand to play anything other than octaves. Totally uncoordinated there. Writing, I went to school for. I studied hard, worked my ass off and spent years and years writing everyday. So what talent I do have didn't come overnight.

Anyway, I'm more than content with where my life is right now.

[vurt]

good, that as much as any of us can hope for

[vurt]

tbh at the min, i hate that "album recorded in a week" quote because i started my current project on the 11th march and currently have about 4 mins tops

[wagtunes]

tbh at the min, i hate that "album recorded in a week" quote because i started my current project on the 11th march and currently have about 4 mins tops

Hey, it's okay to work slow. I'm sure it'll get done when it gets done. Can't wait to hear it.