What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
telecode
KVRian
1037 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:19 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:07 pm
No need to explain. That was my experience with Fruityloops back in the day and, more recently, Bitwig. In the end, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you and that's that.

The problem is that vendors try to fix that by throwing ever more features at their product but what if someone came up with a modular DAW? Something that allowed you to assemble only the features you wanted/needed with no excess clutter? Want to work with patterns? Here's a pattern mode sequencer. Prefer something like a clip launcher? Plug that module in instead. Only ever use linear arrangements? Don't bother with any of those things and just work from the arrange window and piano roll.

One area where I think this could really work is with mixing. The mixer in Cubase has about 100 times more features than I will ever use, which makes it very cumbersome. What if I could choose to have a simple mixer with just the basics, like 3 or 4 band EQ, a couple of inserts and a couple of sends? On the odd occasion I might need more, give me effects containers like Orion does. I'd be willing to pay extra for a mixer like that over the giant mess that Cubase currently offers. I only discovered last weekend that my bandmate uses the mixer in an entirely different way to how I've been using it, which is a giant PITA when it comes to sharing our work. So now we share links to the tutorials we use to learn so we are at least learning the same stuff.
FL Studio is not the Fruity Loops of back in the day. It's a pretty complete feature rich DAW. It just works like crap on OSX. But on Windows it's super stable. Try the demo .

I have a copy from my kids.license. Can't really get into it because the workflow is way too out there for me and my Cubase mentality and I can't be arsed to learn a new DAW. But the DAW product itself is impressive stuff. It's not the old drum sequencer that fruit loops was.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8658 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:22 pm

I last tried FL at v19 and even though it looked like a mature DAW, it was still a drum machine with a million things bolted onto it. The workflow is terrible, I still couldn't get anything done.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Zoom U24, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Aparillo, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2

reggie1979
KVRian
1442 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:30 pm

I actually agree. I've owned it since forever and I cannot get anything done with it. Great midi, but everything else feels turible. Kudos to them for continually trying to make it better, but I can't wrap my head around it :x

User avatar
telecode
KVRian
1037 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:25 am

Yeah. There is a lot of right clicking to reach sub windows. But I saw my kid work with it and watch the YT masters videos with him. They do pretty advanced stuff with it . It just takes getting used to because that workflow is so different.
Last edited by telecode on Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

Image

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8658 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am

There is good different and bad different and FL is definitely bad different. OTOH, Orion also has a different workflow but anyone could work it out in 5 minutes flat because it is easy and intuitive. That's good different.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Zoom U24, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Aparillo, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2

chk071
KVRAF
21598 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:13 am

BONES wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:54 am
OTOH, Orion also has a different workflow but anyone could work it out in 5 minutes flat because it is easy and intuitive.
That was always Synapse Audio's strength, making stuff which is easy to use and intuitive. It's also apparent with their synth. Richard really has a knack for that.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
2768 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:26 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:22 pm
I last tried FL at v19
There's no FL v19 :D They went straight from v12 to v20 due to 20th anniversary :)
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

User avatar
JunSev
KVRian
645 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:50 am

BONES wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:22 pm
I last tried FL at v19 and even though it looked like a mature DAW, it was still a drum machine with a million things bolted onto it. The workflow is terrible, I still couldn't get anything done.
FL version 19... when? the workflow is terrible? why many people feel comfortable using it (including myself) then, from hobbyists to big edm figures and more ext?... certainly you could say that it takes some time to learn if you're coming from other daw or that you need to learn some stuffs, but terrible...

You see what I mean when I said you tend to talk too much nonsense and too loud with baseless arguments sometimes, with all respect. It was the same when you were implying that wavetable synthesis was useless.

I'm sorry but I had to again.

User avatar
antic604
KVRAF
2768 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:02 am

JunSev wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:50 am
the workflow is terrible? why many people feel comfortable using it (including myself) then, from hobbyists to big edm figures and more ext?... certainly you could say that it takes some time to learn if you're coming from other daw or that you need to learn some stuffs, but terrible...
Indeed, "terrible" is not an ideal word but it's messy as hell, IMO. I tried FL at least 3 times (probably more), but really couldn't get a hang of it - up to v20 there was no clear relation between patterns, playlist and mixer; lots of functions are still hidden in multi-level menus that you need to know where to find on the screen, sometimes with some modifier key; windows are popping out everywhere, obscuring other stuff.

Perhaps - or rather definitely - I'm spoiled by simplicity and to-the-point-edness of Bitwig (or Live before it) and robust one screen operation even at the expense of more advanced features, but that's me and I'm aware someone might feel completely opposite and that's fine.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

skid marks
Banned
7 posts since 11 Aug, 2019

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am

There seems to be a lot of love for Fruityloops from the younger crowds that didn't start with a properly designed linear DAW. Fruityloops started as a midi sequencer, then later bolted on features and functions that tried to mimic a linear environment.

That's why people who draw and paint music, use lots of pre-made loops and remix stems tend to love it, and real musicians and engineers hate it. It's okay to get ideas down quickly as a scratch pad or sequence a quick sample based beat, but it falls short for everything else. Most professionals that use it for the beatmaking aspect tend to use other DAWs to record vocals, mix and master.

Now a days there's no need to buy and use more then one DAW, find the right workflow from the start.

Trancit
KVRAF
2291 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am

skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:34 am
There seems to be a lot of love for Fruityloops from the younger crowds that didn't start with a properly designed linear DAW. Fruityloops started as a midi sequencer, then later bolted on features and functions that tried to mimic a linear environment.

That's why people who draw and paint music, use lots of pre-made loops and remix stems tend to love it, and real musicians and engineers hate it. It's okay to get ideas down quickly as a scratch pad or sequence a quick sample based beat, but it falls short for everything else. Most professionals that use it for the beatmaking aspect tend to use other DAWs to record vocals, mix and master.
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
50358 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:56 am

it's the cereal 9 out of 10 kids would buy :tu:

skid marks
Banned
7 posts since 11 Aug, 2019

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am

Trancit wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:
Please provide us with that long list of musicians that play real instruments, like piano and guitar that are currently using Fruityloops to track their music? We'll wait.

Also please provide that long list of top level engineers that mix all of the billboard hits that use Fruityloops to mix and master? We'll wait.

Now provide us the long list of loop and stem based remixers that use Fruitloops? Shouldn't take long.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
50358 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:04 am

skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am
Trancit wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:
Please provide us with that long list of musicians that play real instruments, like piano and guitar that are currently using Fruityloops to track their music? We'll wait.

Also please provide that long list of top level engineers that mix all of the billboard hits that use Fruityloops to mix and master? We'll wait.

Now provide us the long list of loop and stem based remixers that use Fruitloops? Shouldn't take long.
elton john for one!

User avatar
Forgotten
KVRAF
3360 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: What do you think of the DAW market right now and for 2020?

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:06 am

vurt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:04 am
skid marks wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:01 am
Trancit wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 am
There you were a nice boy and have collected all the rumors and prejudices floating around the web!! :clap: :tu:
I like especially the part about the "real musicians and engineers"... :hihi: :dog:
Please provide us with that long list of musicians that play real instruments, like piano and guitar that are currently using Fruityloops to track their music? We'll wait.

Also please provide that long list of top level engineers that mix all of the billboard hits that use Fruityloops to mix and master? We'll wait.

Now provide us the long list of loop and stem based remixers that use Fruitloops? Shouldn't take long.
elton john for one!
And Bing Crosby I believe

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”