Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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exmatproton
KVRAF
2479 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:05 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:03 pm
Hmm, seaboard 49 keys sold out at Thomann, so would I be buying into dead technology?
:hihi:

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JunSev
KVRian
638 posts since 14 Sep, 2017

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:19 pm

enCiphered wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:09 pm
JunSev wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:00 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:33 am
JunSev wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:39 am
bmanic wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:16 pm
How many mod matrix slots does Icarus 2 have? I still find the amount of slots in most Tone2 synths extremely limiting and down right frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I love my Electra X but I very quickly run out of modulation slots when trying to build nuanced patches that have small variations in sound and playing from a keyboard. A simple velocity to mod slot that modulates another mod slot scenario very quickly eats up all the slots.
I would like to have more matrix slots than what Icarus 1.6 has right now too, macro knobs, and the possibility to add more effects than just 3; in this regard almost all wavetables synths in the market have more capacity, but there is not mention of any of this in the first page of this thread for Icarus 2, hope Markus have this planned and is on it.

Otherwise I don't know if I will upgrade in the official release. I like the rework of the gui and the new MSEGs but still (at least for me), it doesn't looks that great in terms of capacity to be a paid upgrade yet if these aspects has been not addressed.
There are 18 Matrix slots in Icarus as is. Plus there are a number of hardwired modulations which don't need the Maxtrix. I wouldn't call that extremely limiting. Of course I'm not against more, but most of the time that is enough for me. My main complaint is having 3 tabs for the Matrix.

It would also be sweet to have a 'via' option... which would make the existing number of slots go farther.
You're right, that is like good enough but if the capacity were bigger would be better at least in some cases (yeah no always but sometimes), a lot of Wavetables synths have more capacity in that regard with around 32 or something matrix slots.

Just to add that the need for some macros in Icarus has been present from the beginning and the official release, the only macro (at least that appears in the main page of this thread) is using the moodweel; Icarus doesn't have dedicated macros, again behind many others WT synths in this regard; would be nice to have at least 3 or 4 macros for specific functions while creating patches. So as results more matrix slots would be even more useful too.

Also now with the new skin there shouldn't be issues adding more effects, is only possible to use 3 dedicated effects, that's good but it could be better, again many of the WT synths in the market are offering more capacity in that regard. That's why I hope for more possibilities and capabilities in Icarus 2
Just out of curiosity, I would really love to know how many people actually use the build-in effects instead of using external ones. As for me, I always turn reverb and delay off if they are active and use the ones I have in my track insert or send. But I have to admit that the Icarus multi tap delay is really excellent and I sometimes use it to add some dark atmospheric color.
This is not always the case for all synths taking into account when the company or developer has experience creating some good quality effects, I understand your point, see for instance MSoundFactory from melda or similars; how not to use (almost if not) the entire complete effects bundle inside MSF?.

And in this case Tone2 has good quality effects, I like their reverbs, the delays ext. and it sits very well in the mix.

metaside
KVRist
106 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:41 pm

fisherKing wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:43 pm
a lot depends, too, on what kind of music you make. i make (mostly) pop/hiphop-oriented music, and don't need it. i've tried the seaboard, and (for me) it's overkill; i layer just enough synths that i need simplicity with each part, and this seems best for nuances.

having said that, as a player... it's a blast.
For sure it depends. For oldschool synthwave, audio-based loop triggering, for emulating a piano or some pluck instrument, for some completely step-sequenced and LFOd preset that you just want to on/off trigger - you don't need it for any of that. But for anything a bit more expressive, from strings or flutes to modulated DNB or Dubstep basses - yeah, it's good :) .

Also, it might be less interesting for people who mostly use presets at this point in time, partly since the preset scene imho was and is much more focused on traditional keyboards. But for sound designers, this is gold, since you can exactly program how your finger pressure and movement affect any parameter, hear it directly, and so on.

tasty tatsyn
KVRist
316 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:05 pm

i agree with both,

before anything else... [not trying to be offensive!!!!!!!!!, i'm not a good either keyboard player or real instrument]
... now that's out of the water.....


i understand both the " i have a new toy" syndrome wich sampleconstruct calls "fake" ( i also understand an experienced real instrument musician won't want to use those accentuations in almost every note, those should be used.... "expressively" and when it makes sense.... otherwise is get a bit tiring after a while, it's stops being an accent, it's becomes almost e


On the other hand from what i understand the modualation should be able to be apliable to any parameter,..... Am i wrong?

So i see it as realy usable and interesting instrument, like... instead of the constant glide and vibratos why not send it to ex: a delay feeback? a wavetable position, an LFO speed/intensity. etc, etc, etc

In a sense this reminds me of the early justifications of early synth developers to creating synths to mimic brass, strings, etc :D... Look where we are now.... :hihi:

metaside
KVRist
106 posts since 11 Oct, 2012

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:15 pm

tasty tatsyn wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:05 pm
On the other hand from what i understand the modualation should be able to be apliable to any parameter,..... Am i wrong?
It still depends on both DAWs and synths what is possible and how good it works, but if I use something like the Bitwig Grid, yeah, I can just use the expression module with its links on pretty much any parameter, even in the effect chain, and control the synth and all effects with just one finger - if I would want to ;)
In a sense this reminds me of the early justifications of early synth developers to creating synths to mimic brass, strings, etc :D... Look where we are now.... :hihi:
Great comparison imho!

tasty tatsyn
KVRist
316 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:26 pm

quick add note to previous post, usually good instrumentalists take years to master an instrument (with a few exceptions)..

About Icarus

we all ahve requests and my main one for Icarus was MSEG's from the start so... i'll let you guys post on this one...
but i Agree with VIA/Sidechain/SUB/whatevername being added to the matrix since it could free many modulations slots + maybe a few extra modulations slots +6= 24

but remember there's always Icarus 2.1, 2.........5, etc to get there.... :party: and Tone2 is not a team of 2 rooms full of programmers...

tasty tatsyn
KVRist
316 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:32 pm

metaside wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:15 pm
tasty tatsyn wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:05 pm
On the other hand from what i understand the modualation should be able to be apliable to any parameter,..... Am i wrong?
It still depends on both DAWs and synths what is possible and how good it works, but if I use something like the Bitwig Grid, yeah, I can just use the expression module with its links on pretty much any parameter, even in the effect chain, and control the synth and all effects with just one finger - if I would want to ;)
Yeah i see a lot of potential in MPE instruments/keyboards and their possible uses... maybe one day......

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16015 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:33 pm

starflakeprj wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:02 am
I can count around 7-10 people continuesly asking for MPE support (same people every time) in all plugins and DAWs in the KVR forum, so I wonder how high the demand really is.
Linnstruments just passed 2000 in sales. I'm sure there have been significantly more of the Seaboard Rise sold as they have a much bigger company and marketing. Then there are their cheaper controllers and other available options...

That is a helluva lot more than 7-10

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16015 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:51 pm

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:11 am
For me the main problem with MPE is that people playing it seem to believe that expressivness means to put a lot of vibrato on every note they play by shaking their fingers wildly on the seaboard. The same counts for continuously sliding notes up and down, it just sounds overambitious and fake to me, nothing I would want in my music.
And some people overuse various guitar techniques too... That isn't the fault of the guitar.

There is no problem with MPE... just as there is no problem with a guitar. There are always going to be people skilled in its use and others not. MPE provides a wonderful nuance. With the single finger I can play a note and control both vibrato depth and speed in a completely intuitive way.

Of course when someone first gets a Linnstrument (or other MPE controller), there is a tendency to overdo it cause previously it was not even possible. It is like a language to learn and at first one tries it a lot to develop the skill and learn the subtleties of it and where to use and where not.

Then you get down to playing and pitch slides are a gorgeous technique to have at hand. It sounds so beautiful to slide a G chord up to an Am... just like doing the same on a guitar.

Then there are lots of subtle effects that are hardly noticed as MPE but which add to the naturalness of playing. Sometimes it sounds so good to turn off pitch quantization and then each note must be hit right in the center or the pitch is slightly off. Same with letting a finger sorta slide off the pad and a subtle pitch change happens as you let go of the note.

And of course there is aftertouch per note. So you play a chord and each note has a slightly different depth. There is the Y axis and if set to say absolute mode, there is note variation depending on where you play the note.

All of these possibilities may hardly be noticeable, depending on settings, yet they can add an organic human quality to it.

I would never want to go back to being limited to a standard midi keyboard!

THE INTRANCER
KVRian
1115 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:59 pm

Can Tone2 Icarus2 be reskinned by the user or is it all locked away in the vst dll ?
THE INTRANCER-Digital 2D & 3D GUI / Music Artist - Orchestral Trance - Ambient - Film Scores | Soundcloud 27 | Soundclick 16 | Producing Music For 25+Years & Sound Monitoring FOH at UK Stadium/Festivals for Carl Cox, FatBoy Slim ect

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fisherKing
KVRAF
1936 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:05 pm

metaside wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:41 pm
fisherKing wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:43 pm
a lot depends, too, on what kind of music you make. i make (mostly) pop/hiphop-oriented music, and don't need it. i've tried the seaboard, and (for me) it's overkill; i layer just enough synths that i need simplicity with each part, and this seems best for nuances.

having said that, as a player... it's a blast.
For sure it depends. For oldschool synthwave, audio-based loop triggering, for emulating a piano or some pluck instrument, for some completely step-sequenced and LFOd preset that you just want to on/off trigger - you don't need it for any of that. But for anything a bit more expressive, from strings or flutes to modulated DNB or Dubstep basses - yeah, it's good :) .

Also, it might be less interesting for people who mostly use presets at this point in time, partly since the preset scene imho was and is much more focused on traditional keyboards. But for sound designers, this is gold, since you can exactly program how your finger pressure and movement affect any parameter, hear it directly, and so on.
i do a lot of modern pop/hiphop, i don't need those nuances. i also do some scoring work, and some (occasional) strings, and find enough ways to make that expressive; i don't need a seaboard (etc).

but no arguing the capabilities of such a controller, the fun of playing one, or the expressive possibilities.
always one plugin short of perfection...

tony10000
KVRist
491 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:39 pm

Talk about topic drift! I think that if you want to discuss MPE, you should start a new thread so that folks interested in that topic can contribute.

Back to the synth at hand: I congratulate Tone2 for their announcement of the new version of Icarus. It is quite an achievement for a relatively small developer to put out an instrument of this quality and capability. I look forward to the upgrade!

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LeVzi
KVRAF
1990 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:38 pm

tasty tatsyn wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:26 pm
we all ahve requests and my main one for Icarus was MSEG's from the start so... i'll let
They used to be mine too, I love using MSEG's for stuff and Alchemy had the best, but well that disappeared, there are other synths with them, but they don't have a sound that I liked, so I am SO happy to see them arriving here. I wish more FX Units had them too.

We need more MSEGS !!!
Forward ever, Backward never

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exmatproton
KVRAF
2479 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:52 pm

THE INTRANCER wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:59 pm
Can Tone2 Icarus2 be reskinned by the user or is it all locked away in the vst dll ?
i am sure it will be locked

Stefken
KVRAF
1544 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Coming soon: Tone2 Icarus2

Post Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:36 am

In the current version you can change the background which is a composite that holds most of the graphic elements. For example on the knobs only the pointer is dynamic. The rest of the image is static and provided by the composite.

I suspect they will use the same principles in the new version.
Last edited by Stefken on Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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