The Wagtunes Corner
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
Now we can move onto something else?
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
Now we can move onto something else?
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 16368 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
Except now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the basswagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
Now we can move onto something else?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
And that was the bigger problem all along. Somehow, the bass during the first 4 bars of the chorus didn't get quantized. They were off by a whole 16th note. That's a lot and it threw everything off.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pmExcept now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the basswagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
Now we can move onto something else?
New version shortly.
So yeah, I actually screwed up and didn't catch it. It happens.
- Boss Lovin' DR
- 12546 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
It was a 'wood for trees situation'...which is the single worst management bollocks phrase I have ever heard anyone utter..el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pmExcept now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the basswagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
Now we can move onto something else?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Bass fixed.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
I've learned something from this. I'm no jazz musician. For that matter, I'm no musician period. I'm a writer. This is why I need professional musicians to do my music because there is only so good I'm going to get it.
Hopefully, this group I've hooked up with will finally be my outlet to getting my music heard.
The track is now better. Thank you for all who helped make it so. I need to learn not to be so stubborn. When somebody says something is unlistenable, it probably is.
https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat
I've learned something from this. I'm no jazz musician. For that matter, I'm no musician period. I'm a writer. This is why I need professional musicians to do my music because there is only so good I'm going to get it.
Hopefully, this group I've hooked up with will finally be my outlet to getting my music heard.
The track is now better. Thank you for all who helped make it so. I need to learn not to be so stubborn. When somebody says something is unlistenable, it probably is.
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 16368 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.
But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 16368 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
No, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pmProbably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.
But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.
As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
City Juice is a different problem altogether. I'm pretty sure I know why you don't like it. It's very busy. There are fills going on constantly and cymbal crashes quite often as well. I tried something different (playing in real time) and while I like it, I can completely understand people hating it.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:25 pmNo, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pmProbably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.
But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.
As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there
That particular track I'm leaving as is but will probably not attempt another one like it.
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 16368 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
Yes, it's too busy. But the real issue is you aren't honouring the groove that is screaming to be pinned down. The bass-line is great! Stomping! Driving! But the drummer is doing his best 'One of these kids is doing his own thing' Sesame Street tribute act.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:41 pmCity Juice is a different problem altogether. I'm pretty sure I know why you don't like it. It's very busy. There are fills going on constantly and cymbal crashes quite often as well. I tried something different (playing in real time) and while I like it, I can completely understand people hating it.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:25 pmNo, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pmProbably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.
But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.
As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there
That particular track I'm leaving as is but will probably not attempt another one like it.
It's a shame because it could easily be one of the strongest in a pretty strong suite of songs. I don't get this need to sell yourself short
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.
But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.
So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.
So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
- Boss Lovin' DR
- 12546 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
One thing I've found is that any 'machine' swing will always sound better and more natural with some human percussion (or a percussive instrument) even at a very low level. I like to use acoustic guitar (particularly 12 string) for it, and can occasionally be arsed mic'ing up some tambourine playing. Basically, anything with top end that will give a more human element - shakers, matchboxes, guiro all that stuff..record a few good loops and use them for any number of things.
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el-bo (formerly ebow) el-bo (formerly ebow) https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=208007
- KVRAF
- 16368 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away
I already said the problem is not the busyness. And just because every hit aligns to some sixteenth-note or other, doesn't make it a good drum part.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 pm FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.
But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.
So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
The big problem is that none of it is in service of the song. You have the bassist trying to pin down a groove while the drummer thinks the whole song is his solo. People sack drummers (and guitarists) for shit like that.
You cant imagine any other feel for the song, but I can; and so can the bassist
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Well, what do you want me to say? I don't have a band to play the song. The band doing my album next year hasn't heard this song yet and already have too many songs to record so they've initiated a cutoff. No more new songs.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:09 pmI already said the problem is not the busyness. And just because every hit aligns to some sixteenth-note or other, doesn't make it a good drum part.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 pm FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.
But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.
So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
The big problem is that none of it is in service of the song. You have the bassist trying to pin down a groove while the drummer thinks the whole song is his solo. People sack drummers (and guitarists) for shit like that.
You cant imagine any other feel for the song, but I can; and so can the bassist
That's where I am and there's nothing I can do about it. Any other attempts I make at this won't sound any better.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105548 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
how do you feel about individuals here giving it a go?wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pmProbably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.
But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
those with the suggestions may be able to at least improve bits, if maybe someone who plays bass could add that? with someone else editing the drums and so on...
not like theres not plenty of knowledge here