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What CD Would You Like To Hear Me Do?

Modern Pop (Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, etc.)
8
5%
Classic Rock (Stones, Beatles, Who, Zep)
9
5%
Prog Rock (Yes, Genesis, Kansas, etc.)
18
10%
Show Tunes Style (Sound Of Music, My Fair Lady, etc.)
5
3%
Country (Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, etc.)
4
2%
Disco (Bee Gees, Tramps, etc.)
24
14%
Metal (various sub genres)
16
9%
EDM (various sub genres)
24
14%
80s (various genres)
14
8%
Your Music Sucks. Please Stop Making It
52
30%
 
Total votes: 174

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Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat

Now we can move onto something else?

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat

Now we can move onto something else?
Except now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the bass :shrug:

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pm
wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat

Now we can move onto something else?
Except now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the bass :shrug:
And that was the bigger problem all along. Somehow, the bass during the first 4 bars of the chorus didn't get quantized. They were off by a whole 16th note. That's a lot and it threw everything off.

New version shortly.

So yeah, I actually screwed up and didn't catch it. It happens.

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pm
wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:14 pm Here you go. Nice simple drum track. Boring, but not all over the place.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat

Now we can move onto something else?
Except now you've made the drums clearer it seems that issue is with the bass :shrug:
It was a 'wood for trees situation'...which is the single worst management bollocks phrase I have ever heard anyone utter..

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Bass fixed.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... o-overcoat

I've learned something from this. I'm no jazz musician. For that matter, I'm no musician period. I'm a writer. This is why I need professional musicians to do my music because there is only so good I'm going to get it.

Hopefully, this group I've hooked up with will finally be my outlet to getting my music heard.

The track is now better. Thank you for all who helped make it so. I need to learn not to be so stubborn. When somebody says something is unlistenable, it probably is.

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That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.

FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.

But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.

FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.

But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
No, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.

Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.

As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there :scared:

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:25 pm
wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.

FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.

But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
No, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.

Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.

As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there :scared:
City Juice is a different problem altogether. I'm pretty sure I know why you don't like it. It's very busy. There are fills going on constantly and cymbal crashes quite often as well. I tried something different (playing in real time) and while I like it, I can completely understand people hating it.

That particular track I'm leaving as is but will probably not attempt another one like it.

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:41 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:25 pm
wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.

FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.

But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
No, it's not a case of not having swing, but of not letting the drums settle into more of a backbeat role during the main body of the songs. During instrumental interludes it's good to create more dynamic interest, but then maybe to dial it back in verse, chorus etc. so as not to pull focus away from the song.

Would be interesting to get hold of a drum-less mix to see if I could actually demonstrate what I am failing to explain.

As for the not listenable thing. This offending section did cause all manner of giddy-ness. However, it was City Juice that I found more of an issue with. But let's please not go there :scared:
City Juice is a different problem altogether. I'm pretty sure I know why you don't like it. It's very busy. There are fills going on constantly and cymbal crashes quite often as well. I tried something different (playing in real time) and while I like it, I can completely understand people hating it.

That particular track I'm leaving as is but will probably not attempt another one like it.
Yes, it's too busy. But the real issue is you aren't honouring the groove that is screaming to be pinned down. The bass-line is great! Stomping! Driving! But the drummer is doing his best 'One of these kids is doing his own thing' Sesame Street tribute act.

It's a shame because it could easily be one of the strongest in a pretty strong suite of songs. I don't get this need to sell yourself short :shrug:

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FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.

But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.

So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.
One thing I've found is that any 'machine' swing will always sound better and more natural with some human percussion (or a percussive instrument) even at a very low level. I like to use acoustic guitar (particularly 12 string) for it, and can occasionally be arsed mic'ing up some tambourine playing. Basically, anything with top end that will give a more human element - shakers, matchboxes, guiro all that stuff..record a few good loops and use them for any number of things.

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 pm FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.

But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.

So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
I already said the problem is not the busyness. And just because every hit aligns to some sixteenth-note or other, doesn't make it a good drum part.

The big problem is that none of it is in service of the song. You have the bassist trying to pin down a groove while the drummer thinks the whole song is his solo. People sack drummers (and guitarists) for shit like that.

You cant imagine any other feel for the song, but I can; and so can the bassist :shrug:

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:09 pm
wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:54 pm FWIW, I just pulled up City Juice and checked out the drum part to make sure there were no hits out of place. Every downbeat is perfect. Every snare hit is perfect. The fills are very complex in places but, quantized to a 16th note, are in place. So there are no "technical" issues with the track. The problem is the busyness. It doesn't let up at all. It's almost like bongos instead of drums. I like it. In fact, I think it's one of the best drum parts I've ever done. But I can absolutely understand people hating it.

But there's nothing to "fix" unlike the other track. I either keep the track or scrap it and quite honestly, I can't imagine any other feel for this song.

So I guess you're stuck with it. Sorry.
I already said the problem is not the busyness. And just because every hit aligns to some sixteenth-note or other, doesn't make it a good drum part.

The big problem is that none of it is in service of the song. You have the bassist trying to pin down a groove while the drummer thinks the whole song is his solo. People sack drummers (and guitarists) for shit like that.

You cant imagine any other feel for the song, but I can; and so can the bassist :shrug:
Well, what do you want me to say? I don't have a band to play the song. The band doing my album next year hasn't heard this song yet and already have too many songs to record so they've initiated a cutoff. No more new songs.

That's where I am and there's nothing I can do about it. Any other attempts I make at this won't sound any better.

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wagtunes wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:18 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:14 pm That makes a lot of difference. I still have issues with the feel being a little too angular, but I don't really have the theoretical language to be able to convey what I would wish to convey.
Probably because I'm not a true jazz musician. They have a kind of swing to their playing that I simply don't have. Now I could have enabled the swing function in Cubase but I honestly don't like working with it because it doesn't sound natural to me.

FWIW, you're probably going to have that problem with this whole CD. That's why I'm looking for people to do my music and do it justice.

But I'm glad at least it's "better" and maybe even listenable.
how do you feel about individuals here giving it a go?

those with the suggestions may be able to at least improve bits, if maybe someone who plays bass could add that? with someone else editing the drums and so on...

not like theres not plenty of knowledge here :)

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