Tone2 I2 vs Trueno Analog

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Auplant
KVRist
331 posts since 21 Mar, 2015

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:51 pm

Goony wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:54 am
Auplant wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:17 am

Relax..I wasn't being so literal. I was merely giving my opinion based on audible phenomenon. This USB thing doesn't show for itself as hardware analog if it doesn't sound like it is. Ok I believe it is a fact that let's say Access Virus TI does not sound like the likes of Spire. Even though that's virtual analog. The virus hardware sound is unmistakable to me.
YOU are the one that was stating everything as fact, when you completely wrong as others have also pointed out, you backtrack. You just dont know when to shhhh....
I was just paraphrasing. I didn't get scientific about anything because that wasn't my purpose. Maybe we have our own definition of thin and fat in audible sound. Ok chill and stop attacking guys, I don't want notifications of people complaining that I'm the worst idiot ever. :party: My opinion was scrutinized too much

btw IJAF is a common saying always used in paraphrase. I did not say "It is a scientific fact" lol ...

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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:22 pm

The whole "interpret things as authoritative assertion" is actually rooted in authoritarianism.

Ultimately those with an authoritarian slant tend to have conservative political slant and exhibit an exaggerated fear response to stimuli. For example measured side-by-side, the authoritarian/conservative will show a marked increase in adrenaline and other stress related hormones, elevated heart and breathing rates, cold sweating, decreased color in the skin, dry mouth and the whole slew of typical fear indicators.

The typical behaviors of this sort of individual are designed to scapegoat and avoid personal confrontation, critique or responsibility. Their own inner selves are projected upon others and ridiculed in a sort of dissociation ritual. They typically hold strong "graven images" or idols and tend to follow cults-of-personality and so forth... this is so they can state "you do not have a problem with me; you have a problem with God."

They fear admitting when they were wrong as they feel this demonstrates weakness rather than the strength and willingness to march onward along the best/most correct path that it truly demonstrates.

In reality nearly everything we say is subjective opinion. I personally can confidently say that I am wrong 100% of the time unless by some infinitesimal chance I happen to land stable on a knife edge so fine it slices through reality itself.

Objective reality is merely documented via statements regarding observation. This is why reproduction is essential... for example "there appears to be a low-pass 6 dB/o slope applied"... much like "The temperature I read from the thermometer was approximately 22.4 Celsius."

So rather than being a critique or assertion of facts; this post is merely my opinion and collected wisdom via the path I've walked in my life so far to date. It's likely entirely incorrect, but I have so far found true faith in having tested it repeatedly and never yet having found fault.

I'd hope posting this might help people consider what aspect of objective reality they perceive for themselves and how through perception this objectivity is transformed into subjectivity... and whether the assertion that what is "stated as fact" is in fact merely observed to be so by the observer independent from the one making the statement.
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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:31 pm

tl;dr;

It is impossible to "state as fact" in an objective sense as the one making the statement in doing so makes that statement inherently subjective.

It is only possible to state one's observation of fact; it is not possible to state a fact itself. The statement becomes a "type of" fact, but derivative from the original and not duplicate.
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Auplant
KVRist
331 posts since 21 Mar, 2015

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:57 pm

aciddose wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:31 pm
it is not possible to state a fact itself
kind of offtopic veer, but are you confident in saying that? If a fact can be proved through science, then a fact can be stated, no?

Anyway, I stated no scientific facts here. I meant my "subjective opinion", not fact. Paraphrase. Deal with it.

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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:29 pm

No, the scientific method is actually a philosophy or religion in the sense of "a common set of beliefs held by a group of people." It's an observation that we can inherently not be objective along with observation of the consequences of lack of objectivity; such as bias and other forms of error. It is the best known way to take what we observe to be objective reality and represent that as accurately as possible. So it's a way to seek to achieve the best possible trade-off with an emphasis on accuracy and objectivity and mitigation of error and bias.

So I'd aim to state mostly observations of objective properties... such as "the digital oscillators appear to lack any anti-aliasing and appear to be entirely naive." The best way to make statements about observations is in my experience to use these softer words such as "it seems as if" or "appears to be" or "I'm not aware of any better ...; so ..."

Subjectively it becomes in my opinion very obvious when you're making a subjective statement as it does not reply upon the object. For example "these speakers sound very tinny." I think the filter in the Trueno sounds unattractive and I don't like it much. Those are inherently subjective statements about my personal observation of my own emotions regarding the object, but not properties of the object in and of itself.

My posts are regarding both the choice of words used to make statements and how those statements are interpreted. I think both sides are contributing to the issue... but to be fair as I've just said above I personally feel that it ought to be obvious in the majority of cases (all inherently subjective) where someone is giving opinion.

https://youtu.be/o6Gwotv3xJI

A forum like this is sadly almost always all about opinions which mostly are worthless to me... I'd love to see more objectivity, but we're not all wearing lab coats and probing things while writing tabled data from measurements on some clipboard.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8908 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:45 pm

aciddose wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:31 pm
It is impossible to "state as fact" in an objective sense as the one making the statement in doing so makes that statement inherently subjective.
Rubbish! There are 366 days in a leap year is an objective fact and not in any way open to interpretation or subjective judgement.
aciddose wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:29 pm
No, the scientific method is actually a philosophy or religion in the sense of "a common set of beliefs held by a group of people."
No, it is not. Force is the product of mass and acceleration - f=ma - is an objective, scientific fact, provable through observation. That the observations may have inherent biases doesn't affect the truth or accuracy of the equation.
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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:07 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:45 pm
aciddose wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:31 pm
It is impossible to "state as fact" in an objective sense as the one making the statement in doing so makes that statement inherently subjective.
Rubbish! There are 366 days in a leap year is an objective fact and not in any way open to interpretation or subjective judgement.
That is incorrect. In fact the exact length of a year requires a large number of fractional digits to express even roughly, and strictly speaking it is impossible to determine the "exact" length of any single "year" as in fact we have no objective basis for these things. They're rather approximations and subjective.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year#Vari ... nd_the_day
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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:08 pm

Reality is more complex than you can fit in that lil olde noggin' o yers.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8908 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:03 am

aciddose wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:07 pm
In fact the exact length of a year requires a large number of fractional digits to express even roughly, and strictly speaking it is impossible to determine the "exact" length of any single "year" as in fact we have no objective basis for these things.
You are talking about the orbital period of the Earth about its star, I am talking about the calendar. You speak with such authority on the scientific method, I didn't think I would need to point that out to you. Whilst the latter is based upon the former, the two things have no actual relationship, in that changing one (as we do in a leap year) doesn't affect the other.

Nice dodge on Euler's 1st Law. I assume it was problematic for you?
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KVRian
516 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:42 am

So, what's everyone's thoughts on the Trueno synth?

Goony
KVRist
33 posts since 1 Feb, 2015

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:47 am

It's a great sounding little synth
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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
2680 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:22 am

+1

Definitely brings a nice flavor :tu:

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Hink
Rad Grandad
29577 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:24 am

:tu:
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8908 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:46 pm

I bought a 10cm USB cable for mine. It doesn't seem to affect the performance at all and it might give you back access to the ports around it. It allows me to plug it into my Overhub with everything else, which is a lot more convenient than having it sticking out the side of my laptop. My only concern is that the Overhub feeds it power 24/7 so I've started unplugging it when I'm not using it.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Zoom U24, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Aparillo, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2

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aciddose
KVRAF
12335 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Trueno - REAL ANALOG, FINALLY!!!

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:18 pm

I mentioned the fact that you can't actually state a fact; you responded as if to attempt to argue by arguing in support of my assertion. Congratulations.
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