PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

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monkeymanx
KVRian
690 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Post Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:19 pm

I've sold many licenses over the past decade. As a seller I got scammed a couple times on eBay with the nasty charge back policy where you have no seller protection since the item wasn't physically delivered. Recently I sold a could higher ticket items and it got me thinking about how easy it is to scam a seller.

So, unfortunately the only protection is doing the gift / friends and family payment method via PayPal or just using something other than PayPal. The problem with using something other than PayPal is that so many people use PayPal. It makes it hard as an honest seller with policies like PayPal has. Doing a google search shows some pretty bad stories about sellers getting scammed and then even having to pay additional fees for charge back.

Now I understand the underlying problem is just dishonesty. Most transactions go smooth. The problem is that even if 1 out of 100 transactions go bad it leaves you on then defense.

Has anybody found a better way to do this as a seller because I have not?

pinki
KVRian
715 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:29 pm

You are right, Paypal is totally biased against the seller and I am glad you raise this important point. My wife has an online gallery and sold an item to a buyer inJapan. All seemed totally legitimate but the buyer just denied receiving it despite evidence of delivery. Paypal immediately took the side of the buyer and we lost £500. Paypal said that even though they knew this was theft there was nothing they could do and we would have to pursue them through the police because the buyer is fully protected through Paypal. Its a common scam... just say you didn’t get it and you'll get your money back.
Last edited by pinki on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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monomox
KVRist
276 posts since 27 Nov, 2017 from CO, USA

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:51 pm

I've been vetting buyers recently --as much as I can with the limited tools at my disposal, basically previous posts, feedback and longevity in the forum.

DJMaytag
KVRist
416 posts since 15 Dec, 2012 from Waunakee, Wiscompton

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:17 pm

Sell on Reverb then. There’s much more seller protection, and it’s a site obviously gear towards musicians.
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monkeymanx
KVRian
690 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:34 am

I’ve been selling physical things on Reverb now instead of eBay. Reverb has worked out in that respect for me.

For the most part I have had good experiences selling here and over at Gearslutz. I actually just sold my Soundtoys 5 and was paid via normal PayPal. Since I’m in defense mode right now I refunded the payment and told the buyer he could do gift method and I explained my reasoning. He looked at my feedback and went through with it and understood my concerns as a seller.

I am just surprised that there isn’t a alternative to PayPal for what we do here on the forums that people have widely adopted. I know there are things like Cash App, Venmo, and FB payments or whatever it is called. Also cryptocurrency stable coins could work too.

DjRubble
KVRist
48 posts since 1 Jul, 2019

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:28 am

monkeymanx wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:34 am
I’ve been selling physical things on Reverb now instead of eBay. Reverb has worked out in that respect for me.

For the most part I have had good experiences selling here and over at Gearslutz. I actually just sold my Soundtoys 5 and was paid via normal PayPal. Since I’m in defense mode right now I refunded the payment and told the buyer he could do gift method and I explained my reasoning. He looked at my feedback and went through with it and understood my concerns as a seller.

I am just surprised that there isn’t a alternative to PayPal for what we do here on the forums that people have widely adopted. I know there are things like Cash App, Venmo, and FB payments or whatever it is called. Also cryptocurrency stable coins could work too.
Sorry but how does friends and family option make the seller more at risk??? asking out of curiosity as I thought with friends and family payments, buyer is totally unprotected as charge back doesn't work and PayPal tell buyers they need to get the receiving party to pay the money back manually (hence why it is considered safer to use good and services method with protection on both sides)

So far I have had no issues buying stuff here, and have now been able to put stuff up to sell having been here long enough to post, its annoying learning of these kinds of buy and sell forums so late in the game as I see I have to work fairly hard to be looked past my new status on the forum itself which I don't mind anyway, I like to earn trust and respect, but it does make it more difficult in this era where scams are left right and centre (Got scammed on eBay by one such type recently for a Nintendo switch gamer download code that was never sent, eBay denied responsibility or coverage as they deemed it "digital goods" which it wasn't as if it was HE WOULD NOT HAVE SENT IT IN THE MAIL which was what his delivery information said when he "sent" it, luckily PayPal made him provide proof of sending and proof of delivery, which he could not and I got my money back...

bastards though all the scammers... why cant they be good criminals and go sell drugs or sex, or their own arse ffs

monkeymanx
KVRian
690 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:30 am

No. What I’m saying is friends and family is the safest way for a seller of digital goods. It would be like paying with cash.

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satYatunes
KVRAF
1972 posts since 22 Aug, 2006 from Charlotte

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:09 am

^^^ But that doesn't protect the buyer so buyers will hesitate to use that option. Scam can happen on either side.
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chk071
KVRAF
21169 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:21 am

Rgearding the "bias" thing: What you have to keep in mind is that scams typically happen on the seller's side. AND, you also have to keep in mind that, of course, the buyer is the "weak" side, which will be very vocal about being ripped off (even when it's not justified, sometimes). So, Paypal or other payment providers will usually side with the buyer (also to avoid long and tedious support cases).

Nonetheless, i'm sure, if you can prove it, and the license transfer, or whatever is well documented, you won't have a problem. Of course, you will find a lot of stories on the internet. As usual.

monkeymanx
KVRian
690 posts since 12 Aug, 2005

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:38 am

No. You could send them proof of transfer but as a seller that means nothing since there was no physical delivery. The buyer could do this up to 180 days after the sale from what I understand. It is absolutely crazy. PayPal’s system is set up to almost invite scammers.

This is why I was looking for another type of payment processor. PayPal does not take care of sellers.

pinki
KVRian
715 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Re: PayPal Seller Protection and Digital Delivery

Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:55 pm

^^^ This is true.
PayPal obviously thought it through from day one and decided profit would come quicker by backing the buyer.
Seller beware.

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