How to prevent overdrive
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TryThisForExample TryThisForExample https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=279271
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 34 posts since 25 Apr, 2012
Hey guys,
i've got a sample as an instrument. One sample is playing around 400-500Hz and the other one around 450-550Hz. When both samples are played at the same time i want to keep the peak of 450-500Hz at normal level, like only one sample is playing at this time.
Thought about dynamic EQ, but are there other easier possibilities to prevent overdrive?
Greetings
i've got a sample as an instrument. One sample is playing around 400-500Hz and the other one around 450-550Hz. When both samples are played at the same time i want to keep the peak of 450-500Hz at normal level, like only one sample is playing at this time.
Thought about dynamic EQ, but are there other easier possibilities to prevent overdrive?
Greetings
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
Two sounds cannot occupy the same frequency in the same speaker. It’s like trying to stand two people on the same X; one person will spill over.
So either the people need to contort their bodies to fit or they move to another X. To translate into audio terms: notch out space in one sound via EQ or pan to different speakers.
So either the people need to contort their bodies to fit or they move to another X. To translate into audio terms: notch out space in one sound via EQ or pan to different speakers.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
- KVRAF
- 15280 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
This is totally to be expected with "normalised" samples. If they both peak at 0dBfs and you play them both, the sum will clip.
So some smart people have invented the Master Volume Fader and a bunch of other volume controls in the DAW. Use them. Just turn it down! A mix is the sum of a dozen tracks individually already peaking at maximum level. So just turn it down, problem solved. Loudness is a problem to be solved in mastering, not in the sample instrument.
So some smart people have invented the Master Volume Fader and a bunch of other volume controls in the DAW. Use them. Just turn it down! A mix is the sum of a dozen tracks individually already peaking at maximum level. So just turn it down, problem solved. Loudness is a problem to be solved in mastering, not in the sample instrument.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
- KVRAF
- 2772 posts since 22 May, 2017
Nicely stated, Mushy.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:11 am Two sounds cannot occupy the same frequency in the same speaker. It’s like trying to stand two people on the same X; one person will spill over.
So either the people need to contort their bodies to fit or they move to another X. To translate into audio terms: notch out space in one sound via EQ or pan to different speakers.
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- KVRAF
- 3089 posts since 4 May, 2012
This.BertKoor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:52 am This is totally to be expected with "normalised" samples. If they both peak at 0dBfs and you play them both, the sum will clip.
So some smart people have invented the Master Volume Fader and a bunch of other volume controls in the DAW. Use them. Just turn it down! A mix is the sum of a dozen tracks individually already peaking at maximum level. So just turn it down, problem solved. Loudness is a problem to be solved in mastering, not in the sample instrument.
Read up on gain staging.
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- KVRian
- 629 posts since 15 Jun, 2017
First of all: if you mean distortion because of too high amplitudes (or in the digital world: reaching 0 dBFS)....turn down the amplitude/gain at the start of the chain.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:11 am Two sounds cannot occupy the same frequency in the same speaker. It’s like trying to stand two people on the same X; one person will spill over.
So either the people need to contort their bodies to fit or they move to another X. To translate into audio terms: notch out space in one sound via EQ or pan to different speakers.
Playing two notes will create interference where frequency content (individual partials in both sounds) will interact. Depending on relative amplitudes and phases you will hear/see "distortion" (as in change in shape/sounds). In fact both sounds are still living happily and unchanged in the spectrum, it's the interaction that causes the "changes" in the end result. This interaction may create high peaks at certain points in the spectrum (and/or cancellations). When this happens to high energy partials (often the lower partials) you might still get distortion/clipping at "unexpected" moments.
Simplest solution is still: turn the gain knob down early in the chain and (re)gain/control amplitude later in the chain.
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
I disagree. You’re not setting yourself up for a clean mix by doing this. The best approach is to make space to each sound. You therefore minimise gain increase and phase issues.
Obviously this cannot be perfect so you then need to revisit gain levels but it’s the first step to achieving a clean, balanced mix.
Obviously this cannot be perfect so you then need to revisit gain levels but it’s the first step to achieving a clean, balanced mix.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
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- KVRian
- 629 posts since 15 Jun, 2017
I don't see where or if you disagree..Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:33 am I disagree. You’re not setting yourself up for a clean mix by doing this. The best approach is to make space to each sound. You therefore minimise gain increase and phase issues.
Obviously this cannot be perfect so you then need to revisit gain levels but it’s the first step to achieving a clean, balanced mix.
The original issue was "How to prevent overdrive". To prevent "overdrive" and/or "clipping" the simplest solution is:
I'm not saying this is the way to a cleaner mix. As stated earlier playing/mixing multiples sounds/spectra will create:turn the gain knob down early in the chain and (re)gain/control amplitude later in the chain.
It is this interaction that can cause all sorts of undesired effects/issues. So if cleaner means: less interference between sounds, aim towards preventing interaction/issues. Then it is as you say: prevent overlap (at a partials level) by giving each sound it's own frequency space (where possible and/or desired).interference where frequency content (individual partials in both sounds) will interact.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105895 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
@kwurqx: ok you’re right. If we’re simply talking about clipping then yes this is the approach. I was jumping ahead to the inevitable next question on why he/she can’t get their mix loud.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
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- addled muppet weed
- 105895 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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TryThisForExample TryThisForExample https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=279271
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 34 posts since 25 Apr, 2012
Sorry i made a mistake, i wanted to prevent overlap of the same frequencies in different samples playing the same Time, just like a sidechain on this frequency when its going to lap, keeping it at normal Level
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
So I was right then. Just sayingTryThisForExample wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:10 pm Sorry i made a mistake, i wanted to prevent overlap of the same frequencies in different samples playing the same Time, just like a sidechain on this frequency when its going to lap, keeping it at normal Level
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
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- KVRAF
- 3089 posts since 4 May, 2012
Using psychic powers is cheating.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:13 pmSo I was right then. Just sayingTryThisForExample wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:10 pm Sorry i made a mistake, i wanted to prevent overlap of the same frequencies in different samples playing the same Time, just like a sidechain on this frequency when its going to lap, keeping it at normal Level